(Obituary)

https://www.cbu.ca/indigenous-affairs/unamaki-college/kji-keptin-alexander-denny-lnuisultimkeweyokuom/about-alex-denny/

The following interview is with Alex Denny, former Grand Keptin of the Mi’kmaw Grand Council. It was conducted in Eskissoqnik (Eskasoni), First Nation on January 8, 1992, with Trudy Sable. The interview was part of a research project for the Canadian Parks Service, now Parks Canada, Atlantic Region, to investigate potential interpretive programs and themes about Mi’kmaw culture and history that could be incorporated into the Parks system throughout the Maritimes. The research for this project was compiled into a report called the Traditional Sources Study and submitted to Parks Canada in February 1992.

Sponsorship for the archiving of this and other interviews for the project is through the Mi’kmaw Native Friendship Center in Halifax, Nova Scotia, with funding through the Department of Canadian Heritage, Aboriginal Language Initiatives Program.

AD:      I’m just trying to recall … what year it was we submitted to Louisbourg, for the Grand Council, of Louisbourg  what would be a good way to entertain some of our aspirations of the Mi’kmaw people. One of the things that we wanted to tell people is, “Sure, it’s the Fortress of Louisbourg, it’s a French fortress,” and the thing is, historically, people are trying to tell the tourists coming in, what happened since the (indistinct) or John Cabot, or whoever the French one was, Jean Cartier. We’ve been replying, “Sure, that’s tremendous history for the French. But if you want French history, you go to France. What should be made important at the Fortress of Louisbourg is the fact that there were Mi’kmaq there. There are still Mi’kmaq there. That we gave them, I think, a plan of whereby – what I wanted, anyway, is some kind of annex up there, historical park here in Eskasoni (Eskissoqnik), you know whereby, I don’t know what to call it…for lack of a better word, we’ll call it a Museum of Mi’kmaq in Eskasoni (Eskissoqnik). And a lot of people stated to me that it was too far off base, as where Eskasoni (Eskissoqnik) is situated in comparison to where Louisbourg is, it’s not the proper, the distance is too far. But what they do not want to tell me is they want to capture – the non-Indian public in Cape Breton want to capture all of the tourist dollars. They want everybody to go around the Cabot Trail, all around Louisbourg and up to, towards Route 4. Nobody wants to send them through or to Route 23. And I’m saying, if they told me that, if they would come out and tell me that point-blank, I would say, “Good, that’s your business venture okay. In that case, we’ll start something up in Eskasoni (Eskissoqnik), because we have been here and we’re going to stay here.” That’s the thing we want to emphasize to the people; that a lot of us want jobs here, and it doesn’t matter where they come from. We haven’t had any miners here; mining hasn’t been done here for ages, but I’m just giving you this as an example. I don’t want to get away from the fact that we’re talking about Parks. But what we wanted from Parks Canada, especially in Fortress of Louisburg, was to tell people what really happened, that Mi’kmaw people showed them where they could make a fortress. The Mi’kmaw people were the guides to the French at one time. As a matter of fact, a lot of people will tell you that we had Mi’kmaq right here in the Fortress. I don’t know if they were hired, or if they just lived there, or if they were there just there for the booze.  I don’t know, I haven’t taken the time to study it, to be honest with you. But, in essence, this is what we want from Parks: we want to be able to get our people off what I consider fools’ gold, which is welfare, and get them jobs. It doesn’t matter… and Mi’kmaw people have traveled to Boston to work. Highlands is not that far, Louisburg is not that far. You can go in the morning and get there and come back in the evenings.

They’ve tried, uh, when I used to be with the Union of Nova Scotia Indians, I had to at least hire Mi’kmaw people during the summer, but I guess when I left, that process also left, because people were not that interested in procuring jobs for our people and trying to get them into the mainstream of what I call the rat-race, you know?  But the thing is, in order for us to survive in it, we’d have to at least start to get (immuned?)  So, the other thing that was talked a lot about, was the fact that Chapel Island, the Mission island, we’ve gone there from, well they’re saying it’s going to be 250 years this summer. They’re going to be celebrating the 250^th year of Mi’kmaq going back and forth. Now, to me, that’s a historical site. Parks should work in conjunction with the Chief and Council of Chapel Island Band.

TS:        You would want to see that as a historic site in conjunction with Parks?

AD:      Exactly

TS:        That’s important…

AD:      That is very important in the eyes of what I consider Mi’kmaw Catholics. Lately, we have had born-agains and you know, just like a hippie movement, I feel, anyway. But I don’t blame people for, as long as people do not drink or do drugs, whatever religious convictions they have, that’s their personal problem. Everybody in my eyes, is a master of their own destiny. But because of our history with the Catholic Church, I felt that at least if you can call it a Catholic park, you know, or whatever, a historical site should be started, at the two most popular areas where people gather, and that’s in Potlotek and Merigomish in the mainland, you know?

TS:        What was the first one?

AD:      Potlotek is Chapel Island. So those are the two places. But what I would like, and I’ll  be honest with you, is that if Louisbourg, if they are going to go out, that they annex themselves and make another Mi’kmaw village, call it what you may, but direct people into here. Because, what are parks for? For them to show people what went on ages ago and try and see if the government can make money. But in my estimation, it’s just another make-work project for different people. But other than that, other than jobs, we have submitted, and I couldn’t find, for the likes of me…I don’t know if you spoke to Sakej, he was our legal advisor on it, but I have looked through every corner of my house. I need a computer, gonna have to put everything on a computer. Boxes are – my filing system is not the best on earth. I have a hard time determining where stuff is, especially if it has been laying around for… I’m telling you, it was 1972 or ‘73 or ‘74, we submitted to Parks, or even later, you know, and we wanted something. But whether they will have that is questionable. Because we only submitted, oh (Hamish) McNeil was the guy’s name at Louisbourg, and I used to work with the guy, and he asked me what I wanted, how he could help, and we wrote up a little submission. But these are some of the things, some of the most important things. I feel also that a lot of the artifacts that are around the world, for example, we…when I was in Austria, at least Canadian Government now has that canoe which was donated to some French or English hierarchy in the 1500s. They had that saved… it’s a 15’ birchbark canoe, it’s now in Ottawa, I think, somewhere.

But some of those important artifacts, if possible, could be, you know, to be honest with you, what I’d like to see is a building here, on this community. And the reason why – a lot of people always mistake me to say that I prefer Eskasoni to everywhere else. And I’ll tell you, they’re right. I prefer Eskasoni because of I guess, two or three reasons, but one of the foremost reasons is that in Eskasoni, we still have the land, not much of it. A lot of people are hypocrites. They’ll teach their children English, and they’re telling them what the nuns used to tell us, and the teachers, at one time. that in order to be smart, we had to speak English and that’s bullshit. I spoke English from the time they taught me, and I’m still not smart, nor am I rich. But anyway, the thing is, I feel it is very important that we have something here, because we still have people speaking and maintaining the language. From 1970 to 1985, I finally persuaded Eskasoni Band to teach their kids in their Native language. And also, this is where the majority of Mi’kmaq reside. And I feel that if you’re going to have a Mi’kmaw museum, historic park, or whatever you want to call it, it shouldn’t be in New York City where you never find Mi’kmaq. It should be in a place where Mi’kmaq… people, not only can they go to a museum, they can look around and say, “Yeah, this is an Indian reservation.”

But those are some of the things that I’d like to see Parks expand to. I feel it would create not only jobs but also, they would also…the way I would do it, I would plan it for four or five years down the road. But in the meantime, I would hire people, especially students who would be interested in being curators of museums, to lead them (to) the garden path now, and educate them accordingly, so that they would know what goes on. We have one Mi’kmaw person who has a degree in library, how to handle library and she’s living in Toronto, married. But anyway, these are some of the people that you have to, you know, this is the route that you take; you show them the light and then you train them accordingly, and hope to God they take the positions. And after they’re trained, if you have a plan to ensure that the training they receive would be adequate for them to walk in, or to work under supervision, even if that is what people do decide on.

I’ve always wished and hoped that Ms. Ruth Whitehead from Halifax could come down to talk to the Mi’kmaw students, not necessarily the Elders; the Elders know what  the hell goes on, but the people in between the Elders, come down and talk to them concerning some of the artifacts that are in Halifax Museum, that should be here. And I give her my blessing for having saved them all, and the fore thought for having saved them all. But take for example, I had what I consider my father’s working tools, some of the old crooked knives and drawn knives and that they used to make butter tubs one time, and they were complete along with those old-fashioned made (…s) – and I offered them to Peter Christmas who was and still is in charge of Mi’kmaw Association of Cultural Studies, in the early ‘70s, but before he could come and get them, which was two years later, our house burned and we had to move everything to a little building I had, and that thing burned down, along with all the artifacts. And I feel that those are some of the things that need to be saved, because I don’t know if that many people, you know, our older people…people do not realize that even the art of flower-making, you know, we say that we brought that back from a woman’s deathbed, because they just did not want to pass it down. I guess the harassment that the Mi’kmaw women used to have, in going around selling baskets along villages was something unbelievable, and that’s why the women themselves did not want their children to go through that, and I don’t blame them one bit.

And yet there are certain things that we can make, and there are certain things that Japanese and Chinese and Taiwanese can make, and they’re hitting the markets here and stamped Mi’kmaq-made. And I feel that people should know, should be taught authenticity, and as long as you can find them to be authentic, I feel that’s very important in the eyes of the people that are buying them. But those are some of the biggest concerns I have if an expansion is to take place, that it does not take place in Sydney, that it does not go to Halifax or it does not go to another non-Indian village. If you are going to have a Mi’kmaw museum or a park that deals with Mi’kmaw people, direct them to an Indian, that’s all I’m saying, and if at all possible, direct them to a community that are still speaking their Native language. Because I don’t know how many times you’ve heard me; anybody can put on a headdress or a beadwork or choker, anybody can bang their drums ‘til they’re broken, you know, but that doesn’t make them an Indian. I feel that even the government way of giving us numbers is not authentic.

I feel that the Grand Council have always felt that, in order for you to prove that you’re a Mi’kmaw, that you have to pass a test and that you speak the language. I feel it’s important that everybody speak the language. I think if the Jews can keep up with their religion and whatever, through the hardships that they’ve gone through, and I’m sure that we have, you know, we can do the same. I’m not saying that Mi’kmaq haven’t gone through hardship; I’m saying that we’ve survived.  We didn’t number 5 million, but we numbered 50,000 at one time, and that dwindled down to 1500. You know, we have been through everything and I feel that it is very important that people are told this. You know, not for the sake… I don’t want to make everybody feel guilty. Nobody feels guilty anyway; it’s in non-Indian people’s blood to forget. I mean, the court systems, they devised their court system whereby after 60 years, if no land is claimed, then it’s in the hands of the beholder. And I’m saying, “Bullshit. If your forefathers stole it 500 years ago, they’re still thieves, and you’re still thieves today. It doesn’t eradicate anything.” Anyway, these are some of the things, and I feel it is very important, that if anything, that Mi’kmaw people be given an opportunity to work in these fields. If anyone is interested in that field, should be given every opportunity to be employed.

When I used to be the Employment and Relocation counselor I used to go to all these parks, I would go to even provincial parks and tell them, “I want to find out. What is your criteria? What qualifications do you need to get people in here?”  Of course, they were all civil service jobs at the time, and people had to retire, and I told them, “Write to me. If you have a person retiring in four or five years, or two or three years down the line, I want to know, because I want to get my own people in there”, and they told me, “It doesn’t happen like that.” I told them, “Well, you can deal with me, or you can deal through politics, if this is what you want. I can write letters to people at headquarters.”

And we’ve had tremendous success in some areas. Wildlife Park people in Shubie, they hired a couple Mi’kmaw people – but it wasn’t their fault, the Mi’kmaw people left, because it’s a tedious…well, between you and I, it’s the most boring job on earth, just standing there looking at artifacts or animals or whatever else. But there are people who have those qualifications, who can make it work. But you can’t get me in there. I don’t even go to visit, let alone work. But these are some of the ideas I feel that are very important to the Mi’kmaw economy. I’d like to see our people work and get paid, because too many people are selling too many things that are Mi’kmaw. We have a Mi’kmaw village in Prince Edward Island that’s owned by a non-Indian, you know, and it’s doing very well, I think.

TS:        I thought that was part of the Band, no?

AD:      No, that’s owned by a non-Indian. A band-member wants to buy it now, I think. But anyway, these are some of the things. The most important thing I feel that next to the culture itself, is to be able to ensure that the Mi’kmaw people themselves get an opportunity to preserve what little there is left, and also to be paid for it

TS:        Did they…I know at Kejimkujik when I was down there talking to the Parks people, they said that no Mi’kmaq came and nobody applied for the work. So, it seems like there’s a two-way education going on, one for Parks and one… I mean, it sounds like you took on that role, to promote…

AD:      Well, out here we did that, because you have to realize that prior to my going to the Union as President or Vice-President of the Union (ed. Union of Nova Scotia Indians)  I used to be an employment and relocation counselor and my job was to get people into work, and it didn’t matter, I  did everything illegal, if need to be done to get people in, like sending them out to Toronto to get into the Union, so they could transfer here, because the books here were filled. But anyway, I feel that in Kejimkujik, I feel that what discouraged people out there was that was one of the first places we submitted a claim to, was Kejimkujik Park, and we submitted a claim to Ottawa. And they told us, “Sure, we’ll compensate you for it.”  We felt it belonged to all Mi’kmaq in Eastern Canada, but we felt because Acadia was handiest to that park, that they should at least reap the benefits from such a land claim. Anyway, to make a long story short, this is what we wrote, and they wrote us back, you know, “We can’t give you, we can’t compensate you, because the Indian Act Chiefs were just instituted in the 50s, so this is how far we can pay the Acadia Band, right up to the 50s, and we’ve been fighting them since. But I feel it’s very important that those Chiefs in those areas should…I don’t think it’s important for people to write letters. I think it’s very important, if Park people are really serious in procuring potential Mi’kmaw employees, that not only do they write letters, but they go and sit with the Chiefs and Councils.

Little do people realize that a lot of our Chiefs misunderstand English. Somebody told them that information as well, so what they do now, they get all that information and they keep it, hopefully someday it’ll become their richness (riches?). They do not pass out information to people that are in the field. And the other thing is, those bands out there are so small, and not only that, but the majority of the Acadia Band is scattered all over the country. They’re not living in that reservation. And I’m not trying to make excuses for them, all I’m saying is it’s, I think it’s very important that the Parks’ people develop criteria whereby not only do they send letters but they also ensure that they are asked to go to Chief and Council meetings, so that not only the Chief or the Band Manager will hear of what the hell goes on, and that somebody who is in the employment and relocation aspect of it will hear about it, and they will pursue it from there. Too many times these projects are lost because people just put it in File 19. I feel that… I’m sure that somebody from out there would go to work at Kejimkujik Park

TS:        You’re talking about two things. One is just employing Mi’kmaq, period….   You’re not even talking about necessarily teaching Mi’kmaw history. You’re just talking about employment.

AD:      Exactly.

TS:        Yeah, but then there’s the whole side Parks is trying to understand too, of presenting Mi’kmaw…

AD:      Mi’kmaw view. And I’m saying that in order for them to do that, they cannot hire a historian like the one the courts hired, who came from New Brunswick, who was an expert. I feel that they must seek what little there is left from our Elders, and they should interview our own people. A lot of our Elders know history, what actually happened, or what was passed down to them. Because too many times people will be hired, like yourself, to come into a reservation, to do a study for Parks and find out what people want, and interview people. And in the areas past, I know for a fact…when I was a kid, there was a person by the name of [name deleted]. He used to work at the beach out there, he came over to do his doctor’s degree. Every one of us were told, “If you go to those white people out there, make sure that you don’t tell them what the hell goes on.” You know, we were told by our forefathers, in order for them to survive, that we cannot tell where there is good fishing and where we get our food and that, because we know how they operate. They will come out and, you know, fish off what fish there is out there. So, in essence, we were told to lie to you people, as a kid, and I haven’t stopped since (laughter).

TS:        Has Parks come to you a lot? …I’m curious because they seem serious this time,    but I don’t know.

AD:      Not to me. See, I’ve been out of the political aspect since 1979. I’m just, I’m now a shit-disturber, you know. I make sure that politicians and Chiefs and Councils and whomever else, you know… if they do not do what I feel is the best for our own people, then I go and talk to them and write them letters. But I’m sure that the Parks must have gone to the Chiefs and Councils. I haven’t asked, I’ll be honest with you, but I have a meeting at 10:00 with a person, [name deleted] along with the Chief and Band Manager, concerning Forestry. I’ll just ask him, I’ll ask them now. Have you met with the Chiefs and councils here?

TS:        Me? Yeah, if I know what you mean by the Chief and Councils… I’ve tried to … I try to talk to Chiefs when I can. I haven’t met with the Eskasoni Chief … Dan Christmas, I talked to Chief Johnson, and when I go down, I will talk to the Chief of Acadia…   I’m trying to talk to Chiefs when I can. Is that what you are talking about?

AD:      They’re so busy. I feel it’s important that the Chiefs and Councils of all the Reserves should be, you know. If Parks were interested, I think one of the ways that you get Chiefs and Councils to meet is to pay them honorarium and mileage. I feel it’s unfortunate, but this is also one of the ways that a lot of decisions are made. And Indian Affairs calls it consultation, by giving the person a cheque, even though they haven’t talked to you about what they’re supposed to be talking to you about, but this is what they call consultation process.  And, politicians, Native politicians are buying it left and right, but I don’t buy it. I feel it’s very important that things as important as our history, I think has to be taught, and not only to the education system right in the community, but in the outside community as well, because we have been for so long called savages,, and historically, we have not had the best rating on earth. And yet, that’s neither here nor there…we have survived it, and I feel that we have done tremendously to help the world Indigenous people. People here do not realize that, but people who are at the United Nations level certainly realize that there are poorer Indian people than we are. Now, I feel with the break-up of Russia, that you’re going to be finding more Indigenous people. But we’ve also had problems. We have people in Europe who consider themselves Mi’kmaq.

Ten days after we buried our Chief, a person called me from Sweden and told me that he was the Grand Chief of the Mi’kmaq, that he wanted to confirm that he left Canada 15 years ago and that he is now the Grand Chief. But anyway, those are some of the people, but the thing is they’ve taken advantage, to me, of Stora Forest Industries, where we campaigned against Sprain (?) in this area five or six years ago, and I think non-Indian people or even Mi’kmaw people, I don’t know, I haven’t seen them, I haven’t heard about them, but I know there are a group of Mi’kmaw people in Europe now that are claiming that they are authentic Mi’kmaq. They are being sponsored by United Nations, to (laughs) live in wigwams and, you know. But these are some of the things that I have to deal with. It’s not the best thing on earth, but I feel that if people can… if companies can be so naïve, well, good enough for them, they’re there for the taking. Because of the fact there was a lot of bad publicity here concerning Sprain (?) they gave a lot of money to some of these…this group of 15 or 20 calling themselves Mi’kmaq. But I feel it’s very important that nowadays the true history be told to people. Next year, we’re going to be celebrating the quin-centenary of Columbus, or is it this year, five hundred years have gone. And I feel, like I tell the Grand Council, I want to go to Spain. I want to tell them, “Look, five hundred years and we’ve still survived.”

But anyway, I don’t know anything else that I can tell you concerning Parks. I feel that the most important thing is to tell people the truth concerning us, and also get the truth from our own people, you know. There are a lot of non-Indian historians who feel that they’ve read every conceivable thing from the time they first arrived, but they just write things that are relevant to what it is that they’re taught, and they feel it’s the best thing on earth, and most of the times the way they think and the way the Mi’kmaq thought are two different things.

People just do not realize the importance of our language. I’ve worked so diligently, so hard to ensure that our language is not lost. People do not realize, that in our language, there’s no preposition; there is no such thing as a ‘he’ or a ‘she’ or an ‘it’. Our language speaks of things that are alive – trees, fish, animals, people, and even rock. It’s so beautiful when you understand it. And it tells you – our language tells you so much that it’s sometimes unbelievable. But our people are losing it. It’s easier to speak English. I can talk to you in English forever, but in Mi’kmaw, I have to think.  And this is why, when our students take Mi’kmaw at the college – they take introductory Mi’kmaw courses at the College of Cape Breton—and in English some people will make up to 85-90, but in Mi’kmaw they never make that much because, you know…I don’t know if we mark them too hard or whatever, but the thing is, one word can mean so much, and it’s so unbelievable that this is why I don’t want it lost. It’s very important that a lot of people are now beginning to think that way. But the sad part about it is that it’s easier for me to tell my son, “Put your shoes on”, Nasipt+sna’si, you know? And this is what’s happening, you know, people are getting lazier, they’re trying to go the easy route… 

A lot of the books that you will see – we have one person who is at Chapel Island right now, who came from University of Berkeley, who’s doing his doctor’s degree, and who is writing about hieroglyphics. So, we feel that to be our language, and the reason why I say that, is when Thomas Gideon from Restigouche would write my father when I was a kid, they would write in the Pacifique system, and if there was something that they didn’t want me to know, they would start scribbling, what I consider scribbling, but it’s really hieroglyphics. This is what I am saying.  It was their language, but they didn’t want to show it off, because that’s one of the ways that I feel that nobody can interpret, nobody can intercept messages that were sent. I feel this is one of the primary reasons why we have survived; otherwise now my eyes would be blue and I’d be white. But I feel it’s very important that in whatever they teach, that they tell people that we still speak the language and that’s the saviour. Anyway, that’s it.

TS:        One thing that I hear debated is what, would you only represent Mi’kmaw people pre-contact, if you are going to represent your history, or some people say, “No, we want to be represented as we are today in Parks.”

AD:      I feel it’s important that the Grand Council represent the Mi’kmaw people. A lot of people…the example I gave you a little while ago of Kejimkujik Park, is one of the things that have been most frightening to me. And the thing is, one of the criteria they have given us is, “Prove that you are a descendant”. And I’m saying, “As soon as you prove that you are a true descendant of Columbus or Cartier or whomever, then I’ll try to prove my authenticity by being the….” I don’t think that we have a pure Mi’kmaw, nor do they have a pure Frenchman or a pure Englishman, up here in Canada, anyway. And, I feel, the government in trying to get away from paying our land claim anyway, they devised questions whereby, you know, if we can’t prove so many generations, then we’ve lost it. And I’m saying that’s bologna. I feel it’s very important that… they’re the ones that devised the Indian Act, they’re the ones that devised Band numbers, that always wanted to ensure that we were, you know…they’re the ones that realized that we were different. They’re the ones that realized that there were two cultures, that we survived.

 I guess Nicholas Denys, the Nicholas Denys Museum put it the best, I feel, in my dealing in reading some of the things. They said that Mi’kmaq had a simple way, that they just took what they needed. And I feel nobody ever quotes him because he told the truth. And I feel these kinds of historians you have to really look for, because that’s what it is. I mean the fish were plentiful, our entire life was based on fur-bearing animals, but we didn’t go out and… until the French arrived and started sending ship-loads to France, sort of thing.

Anyway, I feel that it’s very important that the Grand Council at all times be mentioned. Even the Grand Council is losing…even our own people do not realize…If you ask the high school students today, that the government is going to shut down and that there are not going to be any more funds allocated from government, they’ll just start crying. “What the hell am I gonna do? Who’s gonna pay for my education? Who’s gonna do this or do that?” Because government made sure that we are, that we have to be maintained by someone, and I’m saying, “No, we don’t have to be maintained by anyone. The welfare that we receive is not exclusively “Indian”. The welfare we received was instituted after the Second World War as the Canada Welfare Act, that involves everybody…, whatever people you have right across Canada. It wasn’t exclusively to Indian people. The only reason why we have special funding is because when our forefathers negotiated Canada, they had what I consider Section 9124 (Mi’kmaw word) which stipulates that Indians and lands under Indians are under the exclusive jurisdiction of the Federal Government. That’s when Canada came into being.

Prior to that we had … in the Acadia treasury in Halifax, we had monies where our forefathers sold parcels of land in Halifax and Port Royal. And these monies were allocated because the old Belchers of 1761 papers stated that in order for non-Indian to procure any land that they must get it from the Mi’kmaw people. But none of these was followed by the people here. So anyway, it’s very important that the majority of this thing be run by the Grand Council. The reason why I emphasize the Grand Council, is because we are there for life.

TS:        Who’s the Grand Council here…?

AD:      I am one of them. There are a lot of Keptins (Captains) on the Reserve. Leo Johnson, Michael Denny, you know. From here, Walter Denny, Andrew Joe Stevens. That person who died,  (inaudible) Sylliboy, I think his son is going to take over, Norman Sylliboy. We do not have a Grand Chief, we have an Acting Grand Chief, who is a Keptin from Whycocomagh (We‘koqma’q), who is Ben Sylliboy. We have Rodney Pierro from Wagamatcook (Waqmitkuk) and Simon Marshall and Charles Hearney from Membertou (Maupeltu), and John D. Johnson from Chapel Island (Potlotek). We have Tom Marshall from Bayfield, and every band has different.

TS:        Does it go into New Brunswick, too?

AD:      Oh, yes

TS:        So you represent all…

AD:      New Brunswick, PEI.

TS:        Okay. That’s what I was trying to… So there’s a Band Council are local, right? And there are Band Councils that represent groups of bands, right?

AD:      Yes, they call them District Councils.

TS:        And then there’s the Tribal Council, is that correct?

AD:      The Tribal Councils and the Confederacy and Union of Nova Scotia Indians are all government funded, along with Chiefs and Council. The Grand Council is not funded by anyone. We’re just fools; we do things for nothing, you know (laughing), and the other thing is these positions are with us for life, unless we can’t hack them, unless we become wimps and we don’t want to take the stress anymore or whatever that goes with it. I feel it’s important that some of these things be brought back. We’re going to be choosing our own Grand Chief this summer, or so they say.

TS:        Electing, or choosing?

AD:      I don’t know, I don’t know what the process is, to be honest with you. But a lot of people are saying we’ll vote for it, and I’m saying, “No, we can’t vote for it.” If I had my way, we wouldn’t be able to…we wouldn’t choose the Grand Chief. I feel that I’ve spent my entire life talking for the Grand Chief, you know, writing letters for the Grand Chief, reading letters for the Grand Chief, and asking the Grand Chief not to take positions that are just tokenism. When there is an office to be opened or a ribbon to be cut, they call them in with a headdress, and I don’t like that.

Either I’m a Grand Chief or I’m just a fool, and I don’t want people to be fools. But I feel it’s very important that in order for land claims to continue, that we bring back the hereditary Grand Chiefs. When Grand Chief Sylliboy became Grand Chief in the early 30s, that’s when we’ve lost the hereditary. Prior to that it was hereditary, and I feel that it’s very important that we take it back to that… Like I say, if I had it my way, I’m telling you how I would do it – I would just ensure that young children are, boys or even women are put into schools, what I consider just like the princes and the British hierarchy, the way they’re trained, and brought up proper

TS:        Oh I see, brought up, … really cultivate them for their (leadership?)

AD:      Yes, exactly, this is how I would bring it. I feel a lot of people are in so much of a hurry to procure things. I always tell people, “God should’ve given everyone noses like mine, so you can see a little further, you know (laughing)”. I guess God didn’t do that, only He can explain that. But I feel it’s very important that within whatever Parks do, and whatever historians do, that they come out and starting after 500 years, that they begin to tell the truth. This is all I’m asking, within the Parks system, within the museum system of all of Nova Scotia, and at least if nothing else, then at least the Nova Scotians can be told the truth. They’re only dealing with one band of Indians here, you know. I mean, in British Columbia, they have 104 different bands, different tribes.

            [Break in tape]

TS:        I thought Mi’kmaw history was important?

AD:      I think it’s very important. Catholic history has always been important. It’s very important that Catholic history e documented especially if they are going to do something at Chapel Island. Even if they just opened from, we’ll say right from Lapa’tko’tekemk (ed. According to Kenny prosper is from the French word for Pentecost) which is Pentecost Sunday right up until Mission time, which is two and a half months or three months at the most in the summertime. I think it would be beneficial to the people of Chapel Island and it would also be beneficial to the Island itself.  One of the things that I would never want the Island to have is water and lights because that will take away from the….and a lot of people tell me that today’s modern technology, that we should have computers, and we should have this. And I’m saying, “Yeah, you have that all over. Let’s leave the island the way it is.” This is one of the reasons why I never ever let our crafts be sold on the island. You know\, because I feel it’s a holy place. We’ll let canteens operate for one reason and let people uh…because of the fact that we do not have areas yet where children can play, we have to have them doing something and then to me going to the canteen is, it’s one of the things that they can do. We make sure they’re out by 10 o’clock at night. But there are certain, archaic things that we still do here. A lot of people don’t approve of and I feel, I’m sure that if I were in their shoes, I wouldn’t approve of them either. But those are some of the things that we have to live with. Most of these things should be brought out and studied.

 I feel that Parks has the money, they have the potential, they have the expertise that they can hire.  One of the things that the Indian people don’t have is resources, especially monetary resources let alone human resources because we’re just beginning to utilize the so-called ‘white education system’. We now have almost completed a complete turnaround whereby between 1950 and 1967, there were only two Mi’kmaq graduating from university. This year we have over 135 people going to college on Cape Breton alone. And I feel there would be more people going to universities if we had our own university here on Eskasoni. But a lot of people tell me, all I’m talking about is Eskasoni, I feel that’s it’s very important that, if we’re going to teach our kids, then at least they be taught what our forefathers had to endure and had to go through. I don’t feel that your depriving any of the other people anything by teaching them our own history, because too many of our own people are seeking out new ways, new methodologies. This is why you will see most of the Arizona and the Prairie things come over here, you know? They feel people are starting new things, they have a lot of things…I don’t know, I’ve never read our forefathers having had a lot of things that people had like sweat lodges; and the reason why people, to me, had sweat lodges wasn’t necessarily because they had to clear themselves and cleanse themselves but in Arizona there’s no water. (laughs) I mean that’s one of the ways that people…here, if we wanted to go clean ourselves there’s the lakes, there’s the rivers, there’s everything all around us. Nobody ever addresses that; they’re just saying this is one of the ways that we cleanse ourselves, I mean great, there are- a lot of people clean themselves in many different ways, but spiritually, I feel that our forefathers believed in something. Because prior to the Catholic contact, but I don’t know what it is! Because I wasn’t developed in that environment, and I never read it anywhere.

Everything that was written about us was always archaic that…one of the things that, the first thing that they told the missionaries that I’ve read, told of the Mi’kmaq that they were skinny, that they had wide shoulders, and that they were tall. They never write about what they believed in because they wanted to impress on the Chiefs or bosses that they were really and truly doing their things about extending Christianity to the Mi’kmaq. And we were the first to accept them, and I feel that it’s very important that…we’ve had it since the 1600’s, and I’m not saying that it’s the only thing. You know, a lot of people live right here on this reserve, we have Baptists, we have B’hai’s, we have Warrior societies and those people are indulging themselves in different religious aspects. Like I said before, as long it keeps them away from drugs and alcohol, good, let them do their thing, but the thing is, for the rest of us…. Catholic priests have not helped the situation any. But on the other hand, when you look at history, the first recorded marriage in Canada was made with a 37-year-old and an 11-year old woman. So, who’s robbing who? Where do you start? And saying that this is the proper age to get married or whatever. But anyway dear, I have to leave you, its, uh…

TS:        Thank you!