Interview: Justin LewisArchive Collection: The Mi'kmaq of Nova Scotia Archives Collection - Curated by Dr. Trudy Sable Participants: Justin Lewis and Trudy SableDate: Mar. 23, 2017Location: Kjipuktuk (Halifax), Nova ScotiaFiles: Citation: Sable, Trudy (2017). Justin Lewis Interview for the Nova Scotia Museum, “This is What I Wish You Knew” Exhibit. Trudy Sable Collection, Mi’kmaw Native Friendship Centre, Kjipuktuk (Halifax), Nova Scotia Keywords: Canadian Education System, City Native/Urban Aboriginal, discrimination, Family, Fatherhood, Future Aspirations, Identity, Indigenous Status, Living On Reserve, Mi’kmaw, Off Reserve, School life, Sipekne’katik, Status Card The following interview is with Justin Lewis of Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. It was conducted on March 23, 2017 by Trudy Sable, PhD, President of TGS Educational Consultants and Research Management, for the Nova Scotia Museum’s Urban Indigenous Peoples exhibit entitled, This is What I Wish You Knew. Funding for the archiving of the interview was from the Nova Scotia Department of Communities, Culture, Tourism and Heritage through the Mi’kmaw Native Friendship Centre, Kjipuktuk, Nova Scotia, 2022-2023. Transcript: JL: So, my name is Justin Lewis. I was born in Dartmouth, here in Nova Scotia. I grew up here in Halifax and Dartmouth and I currently go to Saint Mary’s University. I’m in the Political Science program. So, growing up as an Aboriginal off reserve here in the city I predominantly had all white friends, and it was interesting to be treated almost as a curiosity when people would find out that you’re Aboriginal. And I found myself experiencing hurt a lot of times by what people would say just not knowing that what they were saying was incredibly biased or racist. And, it was, it’s hard even today, I still find, trying to find a balance between myself as an Aboriginal and living in this really diverse community within a city where a lot of people don’t know anything about Native people, or the culture, and I find myself very disconnected. And throughout school, when I went to school, through Junior High and High School, Aboriginal people were presented as a thing of the past, people that were here, and they did things but that was all something that happened a long time ago, and that’s where the teaching sort of stopped. Where they didn’t talk about how Aboriginal people still exist today and were part of just the society as a whole and it speaks to, I think, being separated from mainstream society and there’s not enough education that’s put into, or awareness into, Aboriginal people. And that’s fed into both my experiences off-reserve and on-reserve where because I’m not from Indian Brook, I didn’t grow up there, I have a hard time identifying with the community even though that’s where my family is from and we’re all the same people. Like, my father encouraged it, my mother, she’s white and her family is from England, but she always encouraged it. And, it was always part of, at least my identity, I can’t speak for all my brothers but it was something I was very aware of and today still it means something of real importance to me to identify as Mi’kmaw. And, as I was saying before, I struggled with being treated as a curiosity where there was no, besides from my father and my mother and my immediate family, there was no real exposure to the culture or the traditions. And, I might still have a little bit of resentment for that because I would like to be more knowledgeable and more practiced in the ways of my own culture and traditions than I am but that’s a result of the separation where I just grew up removed. And I personally don’t feel there’s enough resources dedicated towards people, Aboriginal people off reserve to remain connected to their own culture and I think that’s really important for myself and should be important for everyone really. I grew up mostly by Micmac mall and like north Dartmouth, I guess. I grew up in like subsidized Native housing so, like Taawok. So, there was always some Native people around but they kind of came and went like pretty frequently, so I never really got to know anybody really closely or form any kinds of relationships like that. And I found with my experiences with trying to be friends with all the people I knew, I almost became embarrassed to want to practice or talk about my Native roots because there are so many misconceptions and negatives associated with being Aboriginal that I would get treated differently by my friends. So, it was something that I learnt to not be ashamed of, but you don’t highlight that. You kind of just let it be and that’s pretty hard when you’re growing up as a kid trying [to] identify who you are, you know like that struggle between the Native and White. Like am I White? Am I Native? Who do I belong to, like? And both, both are really important, but I always felt that I had to mask it and try to be somebody differently, or different to be accepted within the greater framework of where I lived and who I’m around with and yeah. TS: When did you actually get your own status card? JL: I got my first status card, I think honestly, when I was in my early 20’s, so fairly late into my adulthood, I guess. TS: Was that the choice you made or one that…Roger did or…? JL: No, I wanted to get my status card, but I don’t have a car or anything, so to make the journey out to Indianbrook to go fill out the paperwork and get it all done was just problematic. So, it was something that I just put off because it wasn’t super important to me. TS: And can you talk a little bit about how status works as someone who has a non-Native mother and Indigenous Mi’kmaw father, and then you’re also a father now. JL: So, yeah, I have a three-year-old daughter named Lena and I had her with a White girl from the States and now because of the way it’s C31, I think it is, my daughter can’t be registered as a status Indian or native because as an S2, I can’t pass on status to my children unless I’m with an S1, I think it is, registered Indian. And I’ve been thinking about this more and more, as she gets older and approach it from how I’m going to explain to my daughter that you are Native, and it’s something to be proud of and never ashamed of. Yet, at the same time, you’re a Native but for political reasons, other, I guess, reasons that go into that, the federal government won’t recognise you and your status as an Aboriginal person. And with how I had to deal with internalising what it was to be Aboriginal when I was young, that’s not a situation that I want my daughter to have to experience or to… it’s a negative experience and, I don’t want to say it. Yeah, I don’t know how to, I don’t know what I’m trying to say. TS:It sounds as though you’re trying to say you had such mixed feelings yourself growing up and you at least have now status that you can feel validates, and here you have your own daughter, and you have to tell her, “Sorry, you are but you aren’t,” I mean legally. JL: Yeah. That’s, I mean. TS: Legally. I mean it’s legally JL: Yeah, that’s where I’m caught up on. It’s that, you are a native, and you know, you should be proud of that, but how can I explain to her the reasons why legally you won’t be recognised as that? I just, that’s something that I struggle with wrapping my head around and yeah. I don’t really know what else to say. TS: How old are you now Justin? JL: I’m 28 years old. TS: When did you feel like you kind of wanted to embrace your identity, sort of, with more external confidence, I guess. It sounded like you sort of invisibilized yourself a lot growing up, though you really weren’t sort of ashamed, but it was just… JL: Once I started getting more involved with going and doing archeaology with my father and being a part of that, I started accepting it more and more that there’s no shame in being who you are and if people have a problem with you, that’s ultimately their problem. Like I didn’t choose to be born Native, I didn’t choose to be born into all these different stereotypes people have about it and… So, once I started really being involved from an archeological point of looking at our history, it just didn’t bother us, it didn’t bother me any longer what people thought, and I corrected some of the misconceptions in my own mind and I was just able to be happy with who I am and having people know that I am Aboriginal. It’s at that point that I then wanted to start sharing with people, “Here’s something you might not have known about Mi’kmaw people, but it’s actually true,” or “Here’s something that you probably believe as factually true but is just blatantly false.” And that’s become important to me over time as well, trying to not combat hate with hate, but just approach it. That it’s really an educational issue, That it’s ignorance, people aren’t necessarily intending to be hateful or hate you as an Aboriginal person; they just don’t know what they’re talking about. And they’re talking stereotypes and they’re talking biases that they learnt from their parents and from society that we just accept as truths and… I approach it from it not being as much fueled by hate, as it is just people being ignorant about Aboriginal people. And it’s like I said earlier where in schools when, like I was in high school and I took Mi’kmaw studies, I essentially had a teacher just reading us out of a textbook facts about Mi’kmaw people here in Nova Scotia with little to no understanding of what it was that they were actually teaching. And because, at that point, mostly everyone I associated with knew that I was Native, the teacher knew that I was native, he would look to me and ask me, “Is this true?” “You’re teaching, like you’re teaching the class. You should probably know a little more about than me as the student sitting here trying to learn.” So, I see that as a huge problem and you know, my brothers have experienced the same thing where there needs to be more recognition in education on Aboriginal people and our history and the relationship between Aboriginal people and non-Aboriginal people. It’s really important to get over these misconceptions and these stereotypes to help us move forward and… So, people like my daughter growing up off-reserve don’t have to experience a lot of negative effects that come with trying to internalize who it is that you really are and what camp you actually fall into, which is a pretty terrible feeling. TS: You mentioned going on and off reserve. Did you, as you were growing up, or in your life, did you spend a fair amount of time with relatives or going back to Shubenacadie, I assume? JL: Yeah, with Indianbrook in Shubenacadie I’ve spent time there with my families, throughout the summers and when I wasn’t in school. When I was doing archeology in Debert, I lived in Millbrook for, like on and off, for a couple of years. So, Millbrook’s been the majority of my on-reserve experience and even then, I had experiences where people, like Native people on Millbrook, referred to me as a city Indian, where they would tell me straight up that, “you are a native, but you’re not as Native as somebody that’s lived on-reserve their entire life,” because they’ve had the experiences that make them Native whereas I grew up in a predominantly white community, society. So, I’m more White than I am actually Native, which, I see a problem in that reverse kind of racism as well where I don’t think that it matters that I lived on reserve or not. If we practice the same traditions, and we’re from the same culture, I don’t think where I grew up or, or lived is a huge sticking point. At least not for me, and obviously it is for some people, but that’s something that I’ve experienced that I’ve never been able to understand myself to kind of push other Native people aside, and “you’re less Native than we are” based solely on the fact that I’ve grown up in Dartmouth. TS: Would you ever want to live in a First Nations community? On-reserve? Was it a pleasant experience? JL: It honestly, to me, wasn’t any different than living here in the city. You have people that cause trouble, you have people that just go about their business and do what they have to do for their own lives. I find that’s the same way that it is in the city. You have troublemakers and you have everybody else, and I didn’t have any issues really living on reserve, like I, it was pretty good experience, like I mean. I got to spend time around family, and I got to go to some community events. So, it was nice to be around other Native people and feel that level of involvement, like that was a good experience. But again, I don’t think that living in the city and not directly being linked with these communities, I don’t think that’s a reason that we have too many issues that we’re trying to solve today without discriminating against our own, our own people. It doesn’t make sense to me. TS: Do you go to the Mi’kmaw Native Friendship Centre at all? Or relate at all to that community? JL: I’d like to say that I’m more involved than I really am, but I don’t really involve myself in it too much, and it’s nothing to do with any sort of not wanting to be involved or being ashamed of being involved or anything like this. I’m just not really active in it. Well, I mean yes, especially now with having kids. I’m kind of just, kind of bolted down to the city here but… TS: Has Lena met her relatives in Shubie and in Millbrook, did you say? JL: Yup, we have gone out there. We used to drive out with my aunt and just hanged around and…Again, that’s not super important to me, because I feel like there are different ways to, I guess, be proud of and represent your heritage as an Aboriginal person. So, to me, I don’t think that’s as important, like having to physically be there on the reserves all the time. It’s not as important to me as some people. But, I want my daughter to know her history; I want her to be proud of who she is, as both an American, a Canadian and an Aboriginal. And I’d like to see her go to school and not have to have that reaction of people, “Oh my goodness, you’re a Native? Like are your parents Native?”, like that kind of reaction. Well, yeah, like, my parents are native. That’s how I’m here. I don’t know, I don’t know, I’m just… TS: What do you think the word or the term you relate. Is it a term you feel defined to or it’s just a description when somebody says, “oh you’re a city” or “you’re an urban Aboriginal,” because that’s a formal of category now and it’s another category in Indian affairs, and money is going into cities of urban Aboriginal populations, where there’s lots of… do you agree with that? JL: I feel that it’s another way to kind of divide the Aboriginal community. Where, like I was saying, you know, my experiences on reserve were not being as accepted because, “You’re just a city Indian.” It’s kind of dismissive of who you are as a Native person. Like I don’t really see native people from the perspective of being an on-reserve Aboriginal person or urban Aboriginal individual. Like I just see Aboriginal people as a whole. And, yeah, I definitely, my personal feelings on that it’s just another way to kind of divide Aboriginal people in a time where there really needs to be some unity to decide our future and to gain some control in deciding our own future and what that means. TS: I’ll ask you one more question, I know you have to go too… This is good, by the way… is what, you’re at university now. Is there, where are you going with your degree or what’s your kind of long-term vision of your profession and work life? JL: With my, like being involved in the Political Science department, I’ve been thinking about maybe pursing law after, and I’ve thought about international law. But as I’ve been reading on the Marshall case and some of the treaty, the treaty rights that are going to court, that are being decided on, I kind of see myself becoming interested in pursuing these treaty and Aboriginal rights through law. And, I do see importance in judicial activism and how we as Aboriginal peoples can use the courts to kind of interpret and set precedent on what our rights are and what our future will be. And, that’s becoming more and more important for me, especially now. You know the last few years, I’ve become a father, and I would like to leave the world, especially Canada, a better place for my daughter as an Aboriginal person. But, just in general, I think that’s important for all the environmental issues that Aboriginal people are getting involved in now. Like it’s just important, and I think Aboriginal people have a big role to play and if I could be involved in that through helping to work on cases as they go to court, that would be my dream, I guess. TS: Would you ever think of challenging the Indian Act itself? Do you think the Indian Act should even exist? JL: As I’ve been reading the UN’s declaration of Indigenous People, I’ve really have been thinking about the Indian Act and could it really be challenged in court? And I’m conflicted on whether it actually could be challenged and done away with. But I would love to see that happen. And as I’m becoming more and more aware of, like I said, judicial activism and judges and the courts’ rules and making these decisions, I’m actually sort of optimistic in what Aboriginal peoples futures will be. For once, I’ve been pretty pessimistic. TS: That’s good. How do you feel at Saint Mary’s? Do you feel this is a good university to be an Aboriginal student? JL: I do. I’ve been invited to some different functions that I’ve just willingly not made myself part of. But I feel more welcomed here to get involved with Aboriginal functions and organizations that they have than I pretty much have ever experienced in my life anywhere. So, I think that’s, when I keep talking about education and trying to encourage people to get involved with Aboriginal organizations and community, I feel like this is a good step in the right direction to make it more aware and to have avenues to be involved and to know that you can be involved. There are places to be involved, so… TS: Is that through the Aboriginal society or Indigenous society? JL: Politics and I don’t know. God, it’s, I keep getting them from him. TS: It’s probably the Indigenous society I’m guessing. JL: Yeah, I think so. TS: Any final words? That’s okay don’t worry. JL: Um. TS: Any final words? JL: (Laughter) Not really. I’m trying to think of something but. TS: Well, thank you. That was good. That was a lot, don’t worry. No, that was very full, you know. The following interview is with Justin Lewis of Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. It was conducted on March 23, 2017 by Trudy Sable, PhD, President of TGS Educational Consultants and Research Management, for the Nova Scotia Museum’s Urban Indigenous Peoples exhibit entitled, This is What I Wish You Knew. Funding for the archiving of the interview was from the Nova Scotia Department of Communities, Culture, Tourism and Heritage through the Mi’kmaw Native Friendship Centre, Kjipuktuk, Nova Scotia, 2022-2023. Transcript: JL: So, my name is Justin Lewis. I was born in Dartmouth, here in Nova Scotia. I grew up here in Halifax and Dartmouth and I currently go to Saint Mary’s University. I’m in the Political Science program. So, growing up as an Aboriginal off reserve here in the city I predominantly had all white friends, and it was interesting to be treated almost as a curiosity when people would find out that […] View Transcript