KP:      My name is Kenny Prosper and I’m from Eskasoni and I moved here in 1994 in October for employment reasons, because I got a job as the Native hospital interpreter for the Confederacy of Mainland Mi’kmaq in Halifax. North end of Halifax is where I lived.

TS:       So you spent a lot of time with families coming in and out of Halifax? For the…

KP:      Yes. The ones going to the hospitals for their… certain things.

TS:       But you are telling me about different people that lived in various areas of Halifax, Dartmouth, the general Halifax region. Could you say a little bit about people you’ve known or families you’ve known and where they lived?

KP:      Mmm, I know one family that moved here from the States.  They lived in Hammonds Plains area. They moved here in the 70’s, and they’re still here, and all their kids who grew up there. Some other friends of mine they moved here because they got jobs with the government, federal government, Health Canada and Parks Canada… and who else?  Some others had moved here because they just wanted to, didn’t want to stay on the reserve so they’d get away from their problems, I guess or…start something different here.

TS:       You’re also part of the Mi’kmaw Native Friendship Centre.

KP:      I’ve been on the Board there a few times, the Board of Directors of the Friendship Centre. So, I know a little bit of what happens there

TS:       What kind of services do they offer and…?

KP:      Um, they have support services for people that move to the city from the reserve, like somebody… employment councillors there, they have training programs there for computer training and, I don’t know what was there, maybe upgrading or…. Then they have housing, somebody that helps you find housing in the city. There was an alcohol and drug worker there but no longer there because of funding, I guess.TS     Do you know when the Mi’kmaw Friendship Centre, Native Friendship Centre began and how it came into being?

KP:      Um, I think it began in early 70’s.  It was on Harris Street, I think at first, it was a smaller building, then they were on Brunswick Street.  Then they finally moved to Gottingen Street where they are located now.  I don’t know when they moved there.  It’s a bigger space. They used to have a hostel  but that stopped years ago for some reason.  I don’t know the reason, ‘cause for people could stay there if they didn’t have a place but they don’t have that anymore.

TS:       Do you know the reason the Friendship Centres started in the first place and what they,  how that influenced people from the Mi’kmaw culture coming here?

KP:      Probably to help people from the reserve move into the city, I think that was one of the main reasons.  So, they have like a some kind of supports when they’re here, when they move here.  But not everybody would have used it, but a lot of people would have.

TS:       Do you think there were quite a number of Mi’kmaw people living in the city when the Friendship Centre started?

KP:      Um, sure there were but they were probably scattered all over the city.

TS:       All right.

KP:      Some families that were moved here, or their women married non-native men here raised their families in different parts of the city.

TS:       So would have those women been non-status then?

KP:      They would have been non-status until 1985 when the law changed.

TS:       So do you think that the Friendship Centre was partly in response to some of those women themselves that were living in the city but have lost their status?

KP:      Could be, I don’t really know.

TS:       We talked about why so many people started coming into the city in the 70’s.

KP:      Probably to see if there is employment opportunities or go to university and stuff.

TS:       Do you know how many Mi’kmaw are living in the city today?

KP:      No, I don’t. Quite a big number though.

TS:       Do you feel like there is a community of Mi’kmaw people here?

KP:      Uhhmm.

TS:       In the sense of coming together for various cultural reasons or legal, political.

KP:      I know the Friendship Centre has different activities for in the day for day care, for the Native families, well not all of them use that day care but some do.  Mi’kmaw day care, so,it depends if it’s convenient from where they live I guess. So, they have cultural activities for the ones that go there, and then there’s the youth activities sponsored by the centre after hours. They have Elders’ supper every month.

TS        But that’s not necessarily just Mi’kmaw?

KP:      For any Elders, doesn’t have to be Mi’kmaw.

TS:       So do you consider yourself an Urban Mi’kmaw?

KP:      Yes, I do (laughs).

TS:       What does that mean to you?

KP:      Because we’re living in the city.

TS:       But you travel back and forth to Eskasoni quite a bit. Did you say something about your connection between…?

KP:      I move back and forth to the reserve for visit family and certain locations. So, all my family is there. I have a house there yeah. I have a house here too (laughs). Not a house really, it’s a condominium, I think I’ll probably stay here.

TS:       Well a lot of your family come to visit you as well.

KP:      Yeah, they come up once in a while.

TS:       Can you go back to the Hammonds Plains area? If I’m correct, that was Crown land?

KP:      That was Crown land where they lived but now it’s reserve land. Since about a few years now.

TS:       Do you remember what the conditions were for people living on Crown land?

KP:      I don’t know, seems like…there was one house there and several mobile trailers with the same family.

TS:       Did they own the land?

KP:      Not in the sense they own it, they considered that they owned it, but they only had… were using it.  So, I don’t know, because it’s Crown land, I don’t know. Taawok housing is subsidized housing for Natives that live in the city then you pay the rent depending on your income and that started ;in 1981, they were saying. There’s 140 units; they’re scattered all over the city.

TS:       Including Dartmouth?

KP:      Including Dartmouth. They’re everywhere. North End, South End, Downtown, West End, Spryfield, they have units everywhere.

TS:       Do you know what areas other Mi’kmaw are living in as well?

KP:      Some have their own houses, not very many. The ones that could afford to buy a house I guess, that have good jobs.

TS:       Do you know much about Cole Harbor?

KP:      Cole Harbor is a reserve land that belongs… it’s not very big in acreage. I think there is like, it’s part of the Millbrook reserve.  From what I was told by one of the persons that lived there, there’s 13 houses, and normal houses are a lot because they want the land to be used for commercial development for the Millbrook band.

TS:       Was that always a reserve? Cole Harbor?

KP:      As far as I remember. It shows up on the early census records. In 1901 there’s a few families there.

TS:       What happened to them during centralization?

KP:      Seems like same families still there but…

TS:       What are the names of the families?

KP:      Phillips. They’re living on Caldwell Road.

TS:       So you’re saying that was an early reserve and the families didn’t move during centralization that you know of?

KP:      Some might have moved to the reserve and probably a lot of the children married non-natives, I would say.  Same thing with the Hammond family that lived in Tufts Cove. They moved there 1912. They must have had like 8 or 9 kids. They grew up in the 20’s and 30’s then they all moved out West, afterwards. Only one of them married a  Native girl, one of the boys. So, the rest are, have moved away, not to reserve but other cities out west, Ontario and B,C.

TS:       Did they live in wigwams at that time?

KP:      At the turn of the century, oh they moved there in 1912. So, from pictures I’ve seen they are living in wigwams and tar paper shacks.

TS:       Did you ever live in a wikuom?

KP:      No, those were gone by the 30’s. Well, my grandmother told me when they got married in 1914, they lived in a tar paper wikuom.

TS:       That was in Eskasoni or?

KP:      No, they lived in Chapel Island and different parts of Guysborough County, ‘cause they moved around to make a living I guess, to different areas. Then eventually they built their house in Chapel Island, I don’t know what year they built the house, because I never asked. Now there is no way I can find out. The house is still there. When my grandparents moved to Eskasoni, they sold the house to a French family in French Cove near St. Peter’s. It was moved across the ice on logs. The house is still there today. St. Peter’s, I think it’s called French Cove, that community near St. Peter’s.

TS:       So, just listening to you, the Phillips are still in Cole Harbor?

KP:      A few of the family.

TS:       Okay, do you know other families living there now?

KP:      Most of them seem to be from Millbrook. I know one, the last name’s Stevens but he moved from Millbrook maybe 20 something years ago. There’s Copes… I don’t know the rest.

TS:       And what about Hammond’s Plains? I know you mentioned the (Sylliboys?).

KP:      Oh, that’s the only one living there… No, there’s a gaming place owned by the Shubenacadie band. Shubenacadie owns that. Now that’s part of Shubenacadie reserve.

TS:       Can you, do you know more about Tufts Cove?

KP:      What, certain families living there, I don’t know how many families, maybe 10, 15, families, around the turn of the century. They came from different areas, I guess. The Nevins moved there 1912.

TS:       Do you know anything about the Sambro area?

KP:      No, I don’t know Sambro area.

TS:       Do you have any thoughts about the Indian Act yourself? As a Mi’kmaw person and your own status as a Mi’kmaw.

KP:      Indian Act, oh, so that changed in 1985 because it was found to be discriminating against Native women because they lost their status when they married a non-Native. So, that’s changed, and they got their status back and their children got status.

TS:       What do you feel about the Indian Act itself?

KP:      I don’t really know too much about the Indian Act. I don’t hear too much that’s positive about it. It regulates life on the reserve I guess, right?

TS:       So, Kenny, are you supported by the band? Or are you independent now living here? I know a lot of people…-

KP:      No, they don’t support you when you’re off reserve, if you have an income.

TS:       So you’re independent?

KP:      Yeah.

TS:       And your house on reserve, is that something that you just have owned, inherit?  How does that work?

KP:      It belonged to my mom’s foster father and he left it to me when he passed away.

TS:       Is that how it works on reserves? I’ve always been confused how houses get passed along. Are they kind of given to certain families?

KP:      Um, it depends. The band would take it or if you have, well I have a certificate of possession, but not everybody has those.

TS:       Does that mean you own the land?

KP:      It’s Crown…- what do they call? Reserve land, you can’t really own it, like off reserve. You can have possession of it. That’s why that paper is called ‘certificate of possession’, it’s not a deed to ownership. That’s how I understand it.

TS:       So is that something you can pass on?

KP:      You can pass it on, pass it on, as long as you have have that paper. But they don’t give those out anymore because of complications for the Chief and Council, I guess. They don’t give out ‘certificates of possession’ so  a lot of people don’t have those and they can’t get them.

TS:       Can you tell me of your general experience living in…-

KP:      Mmm?

TS:       Can you talk about your general experience of yourself and other Mi’kmaw you know? I know you know a number of people of their experience living in Halifax?

KP:      I love living in Halifax because I know, I have like…socialize with certain people when we go out, I have a certain number of friends I go out with. Plus, my job, it’s… you get to meet a lot of people. So, it’s more, pretty more social.

TS:       When you moved here 25 years ago, what year was that?

KP       ’94.

TS:       ’94.

KP:      It was 23 years, this year.

TS:       Were there a number, a lot of Mi’kmaw people living here at that time?

KP:      Yes, I would say so yeah, and there were a lot of students going here to university.

TS:       It sounds like more and more students started coming in the 70s. Is that correct or am I wrong?

KP:      Yeah, more after the 70’s then before because population is increasing so, more were getting into university.

TS:       So do most of those students stay, do you know? Or do they leave when they’re finished?

KP:      Most of them seem to want to stay on the reserve.

TS:       Even after university?

KP:      Even after university, for some reason. I don’t know. See what they can find there but probably better job opportunities in the city.

TS:       So it’s about jobs?

KP:      Yes, I would say so, yeah. Seems like the Native organizations helped hold a lot of their meetings in the bigger cities like Halifax, or even training programs, like two, three-day training or whatever, workshops.

TS:       How do you feel about reserves?

KP:      Hmm, that’s a difficult question to answer. Some of the reserves are getting more developed, especially the ones near the urban center like Sydney and Truro. But there’s a problem with the other ones because they’re so isolated. So, there’s not much in economic development compared to if you were near the urban centers, so there’d be more poverty.  [They] put lot of the reserves away from the urban centers, maybe that was the government’s policy of keeping Natives away from populated areas or something. They don’t want natives living near cities like the turn of the century, “keep them away, leave them on the reserve”, that sort of mentality. And a lot of the reserves are not suitable for farming or other stuff.

TS:       Didn’t your family farm in Eskasoni?

KP:      They farmed when they were in Chapel Island. Their land was better than what they got when they moved to Eskasoni.  (When I was last there, that’s ?) what they had left behind. It was better for farming where they had left. They had their own vegetables and potato garden and cow and chickens and others and stuff. We had a garden when we were growing up. Potato garden and you know, some chickens. I don’t remember having a cow. We had a horse.

TS:       And when did that change for you?

KP:      Probably by the 70’s, early 70’s. They stopped growing, yeah, no more farming. A lot of people didn’t have to do farming anymore, I don’t know because of what. (Maybe?) welfare,  I don’t know or, some people got jobs, I don’t know the reason. It’s not part of it, I don’t think anybody farms there anymore. Maybe the cost of doing farming, I don’t know, for growing vegetables. I don’t know anybody that does that now, maybe small little gardens but I don’t know anybody.

TS:       And when you were in Eskasoni, still living there before you moved, were you seeing a lot of people leaving and going to Halifax or urban centers at that time say in…-

KP:      Only remember like the late 50’s, late 50’s and 60’s, some families moved to Boston, not to Halifax.

TS:       And why do they move to Boston instead of Halifax?

KP:      There were jobs there and Indian agents would pay their way and offer them their way to go there, I guess.

TS:       Could you say more about that?

KP:      No, because I don’t remember those too, only from what other people told me, that the Indian agent would pay their way to go to Boston so they could get jobs there.

TS:       Was that a good thing?

KP:      I don’t know because I don’t know what life was like in Boston, so, depends.

TS:       It sounds almost like Indian agents were supporting employment off reserve.

KP:      Seems like it, but some of them were not working in Boston. They were on social assistance.

TS:       In Boston you mean?

KP:      I think so, a lot of them were working.

TS:       Did your family ever live in the city?

KP:      My parents lived in Toronto for a year, probably around 1960, but they only took two of the kids them with.

TS:       Why did they go there?

KP:      To find jobs. So, they worked but they didn’t make much, so the three older ones stayed behind with the grandparents. They had low-paying jobs so they couldn’t really even make enough to like get the other kids to come up and stay. No, it’s very hard for our Native people to find jobs in Sydney, paying jobs.

TS:       Why is that?

KP:      I would blame discrimination.

TS:       You would or…?

KP:      I would yeah, by the employers.

TS:       So what happened after the year when, moved…-

KP:      When they moved back home.

TS:       Was that in the 60’s?

KP:      They were there ’59, 1959, 1960. They came back in ’60 sometime. But the ones who were in Boston the majority moved back in mid 60’s, back to Eskasoni. Maybe only a small percentage stayed in Boston. I don’t know why, maybe life was getting better on the reserve or I don’t really know, I know people really (people?) was too…maybe life wasn’t that good in the city compared to back home, I don’t really know.

After the war I think there was a number of families living down Bedford from various parts of, different parts of Maritime maybe 10, 15, families from different reserves. I don’t know what they were,  there must have been highway work or something there or labor work, but they would have been in Bedford area, somewhere. According to the 1921 census,

TS:       So afterwards…

KP:      But by looking at the names, you could tell they’re not from this area. Some from PEI, some from New Brunswick, some from Cape Breton and other nearby reserves here.

TS:       Would that be after World War I then?

KP:      After the war, or must have, maybe started…-

TS:       World War I?

KP:      After World War I, yeah. They must have been here for a few years and then lost their jobs (inaudible), probably all moved back to where they came from. I know this one family from Chapel Island, Newell Bernard and his wife, they were there, like that’s what my cousins told me. His grandparents were there for a few, three, four, years? Bernards.

TS:       Weren’t there also Prospers living in this area?

KP:      There were but no relation to me. Directly they came from, that Prosper, came from Newfoundland in the mid 1850’s.

TS:       Do you know much about the military and people who came to stay at the barracks like Annie was talking about?

KP:      No, I don’t know much about the military, but I know who was in the first World War. I have those records.

TS:       Would they have come to Halifax to train? I know John Basque…

KP       I don’t know where they would have trained. Either somewhere down the valley or Debert, or, where was the training for second World War veterans? I don’t know where. I know one veteran told me he went down Kentville area or somewhere, forget where, before he went to war in Europe, the second war. And then others would have been, where was the other training place, Debert?

TS:       Yeah, I think that used to be a military place, I know that.

KP:      Well I forgot, I don’t even know where.

TS:       Yeah, I’m just wondering I imagine coming to visit her brother at the Barracks here at the Citadel, remember?

KP:      Oh yeah.

TS        She was talking…-

KP:      She was here for her brother. She said her brother was stationed here Citadel Hill at the barracks

TS:       Yeah.

KP:      Second World War, he was a second World War veteran.

TS:       So I’m just wondering how many Mi’kmaw would have been in the Barracks.

KP:      I don’t know who would have been here, I don’t have those records.