The following interview was with Peter Robinson in his home in Sɨkɨpne’katik (Shubenacadie), Nova Scotia on November 10, 1992. The interview was done by Trudy Sable, accompanied by Wallis Nevin, as part of a research project on Maritime baseball history for Dr. Colin Howell, Professor of History at Saint Mary’s University in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Portions of the research were later published in Dr. Howell’s book, Northern Sandlots: A Social History of Maritime Baseball (University of Toronto Press,1995). Sponsorship for the Archiving of this interview was through the Mi’kmaw Native Friendship Centre, Halifax, N.S. with funding through the Department of Canadian Heritage, Aboriginal Language Initiatives Program (2018-2021) and the Nova Scotia Department of Communities, Culture, Tourism and Heritage (2021-2023.

(Peter is showing us a picture from 1939 of a group of Mi’kmaq at Bear River who had just played a game of three catches with a baseball and bat. The game consists of one person being up at bat and hitting the ball. The other players are in the outfield, and all try to catch the ball. The one to make three catches then gets a turn at bat.)

PR       I was going to say, right here we have this Joseph Meuse. What side would he be on?

TS       Left back.

PR       And over here, next, is John Pictou from Springhill.

TS       Oh, he’s from Springhill?

PR       And, oh yeah, I missed this first one here. Joseph Meuse, he was from Bear River. And right here, that’s John Pictou, he’s from Springhill. And, right here, this is George Hood. And George Hood, he was from Newville or Halfway River. Then there’s myself there, Peter Robinson, and I was from Yarmouth. Then over the next fella here, this is Andy Paul, and he was from Bear River. And this is Joe Peters, and he is from Bear River. And this is Ben Sack, and he’s from Shubenacadie.

TS        And Joe Peters.

PR       And Joe Peters… this is not the real team, we were….Now George Hood, he was a fiddler, he played violin. Just after this picture was taken…he played ball with us…I played ball here with them. We were a [inaudible], but it was like a pick-up team; we played, and all that, but they were from different places. They were all mixed up here…Joe Peters, he had played ball and Bear River team…when Bear River ball team had played the Yarmouth Gateways. And Yarmouth Gateways were pretty good. Not pretty good, but really good for at that time because they played against Liverpool. And I’m not too sure of myself but Liverpool ball team was just about, I think, as good as that they had in the Maritimes. It was good at that time. Now they have… that’s about the closest I could come, I think.

TS       At McEwan’s home, in 1939. (reads the back for the picture)

PR       Yeah. And you see, back… when that’s turned back… you’re reading it there now, but here, when the war broke out there was…. Let’s see, this fella here, he joined up in the army. The war broke out in September, so, he joined up. This fella here…. and they all…. See I was fourteen years old there. Because a few different reservations that I stayed on, as to where I stayed around, and I travelled around. I travelled with the Billy Lynch Show. Run away from that. It was after my parents had passed away, a man by the name of Louis Luxie, my grandfather…. So, when he died then for couple of years I travelled around, you know. And then I lied about my age, and I got in the army myself. Eventually I got in myself.

They survived it. These two fellas here I’m talking about, they did come back. Andy Paul, and he was in the service. Joe Peters was in the service, yes. And he went overseas and back; he survived it. That is, this fella here I’m pointing at, Joe Meuse. And he died here about four or five years ago, I guess.

You can have this list here if you want it. There’s Native people in that was champion canoe paddlers. Among the Native people here lately, and I started when I was too late, but into pitching horseshoes and into the Indian Summer Games that I went into one of the…. pretty good size Indian Summer Games gatherings that they had… and playing in the horseshoe tournament into it, I had came first. I won, by winning that way, my trophy and everything and I got the… I was at that time champion of the Maritimes and Native people, pitching horseshoes. There’s different ones had (?) it to say after that they were, but they should have been in the game. Understand what I mean? And the way they had talked and went on about it that much that the next Indian Summer Games that they had that came up, I didn’t play. Because I found myself going…. I could show you my trophies. I mean this trophy that I got….This is the card that I had to join the Halifax Horseshoe Club. And this, this is the Indian Summer Games here. 1985, it’s right on there what it is.

And so, but there’s people that they didn’t speak about. As they kept the Indian News going around, and the Indian News is supposed to be about Indian people doing Indian work, and Indian life. And they always have a lot of sports in it. The Indian News, ‘specially when there’s ball-playing, it would be a lot of ball playing, pictures and different things. If they’re after going to talk about the Indian sportsmen, there’s names on here: Frankie Glode, he was a champion canoe paddler, and Charlie Harlow, and a champion boxer that come from Pictou Landing, his name was Isaac Thomas, and he was brought up here, right up here on this hill at the old Indian School. And because not only being the champion here but he went overseas and that’s where he got the title. He was, I don’t know just what, not quite sure of myself what class it was. It would have been a welter-weight champion or a light-weight champion.

But in these books and stuff, I never hear any Indian news. Are these people picking it up and speaking about it? The Indian, the Native person that has done good, or did do good, they don’t speak of them. They’re not recognized. Same as the Native people that went to this Shubenacadie School, they always criticizing. On Armistice Day, you don’t see their names, and they don’t come down here praying, and they don’t have anything up here. Because I have a list, how many Native children that left the school here and had no place to go probably, not all of them…some of them had a place to go…that went in the service, they had went in the service, and went overseas, and there was four of ’em had died, and they were brought up in this Shubenacadie School, but on Armistice Day, the Native people, they’re just not recognized. And I could show you the list. Would you like to see the list?

TS        Sure.

PR       Kind of dusty.

WN     Wasn’t he from Elmsdale originally?

PR       Shubenacadie Reserve.

WN     This ball game. “Three catches and you’re up to bat” (written on the back of the picture). How’d you play that game?

PR:      They call it ‘knock-out.’ They hit the ball and knock it out there. And you’d… they’d all run at it, and you didn’t play to… it was sort of rough because as the ball was landing, they’d push one another away or something like that. So, if you could get three catches then you’d go up to bat.

TS:      Like the game I was talking about? You mean there’s one batter, and he hits it? And the others try to catch it?

PR       Yeah. He took the bat, but when he knocks the ball out there, and, when they go to run for it, it could be sort of rough in a way, but…. If two or three of us got there at the same and there was a… it could be a bump match or pushing match about it. But the one that could catch it had three catches and then you go up to bat yourself. That’s what it’s called. And, as I was saying before, that wouldn’t be the real, original ball-team. But if you talk to this man here, Joe Peters, he could tell you even what year and….

TS        He was a ballplayer, Frank Marble. Wasn’t he from Pictou?

PR       Yeah.

TS        He was a ballplayer. I heard a lot about him.

PR       Yeah. Frank Marble. He was a pitcher.

TS        He was very good, right?

PR       Yeah. And J.J. up here. J.J. Julien, John Julien. He’s up here now, he’s still livin’.

TS        [To WN] Do you know him? Do you know him?

PR       So he’s still living; he’s up there now.

TS:      Did he play baseball, you mean? Or he…?

PR       No. They were playing softball. And Frank Marble, he played softball. But, here, this is the only one here (points to picture) in this crowd here, whatever, Joe Peters would have played baseball.

TS        And you. Didn’t you play?

PR       Well, I think (they) would have been naming off, and Joe Peters and Henry Peters, Charlie Harlow, Jim Harlow, and Joe Lewis, and McEwans. I haven’t got…. Sullivan McEwan and maybe John McEwan, I don’t know for sure. That would have been getting close to their (Bear River) ball team. And maybe this fella, Andy Paul. So, the Bear River Indian Native people there, they had a ball team. And for Annapolis, I don’t know but near what they would have had.

And on here…. Now, we’re leaving baseball now. You see? These fellas that had left the Indian school at Shubenacadie, went overseas and got killed, and I said they wasn’t recognized. But there’s four of them. See where the crosses are there (by the names on a list of veterans) JP was showing me? What I’m trying to say is that they do a lot of talking about the Indian School, but tell me, and tell others what it done, what they done. And there’s some of these people here, they’re only speaking about the ones that had went to jail. But some have became schoolteachers and engineers, has done good in life. But, you know, you’re only giving me the… or they are…. When I hear of it, they’re only telling me about the bad part of it. You want that, did you?

TS        (offers cookies)  Sure, if you have enough. Thank you.

PR       And let me see, do I have another one up there? Did you want the picture?

TS        If you can spare it, yes, very much. Thank you. Is that a homemade ball? Did that ball… it looks homemade. Do you know? Can you tell?

PR       That might have been the one where they rolled up string, they put a stone in the middle, and they keep wrapping it with string and on the outside, it would have been tape.

TS        Tape? Not leather.

PR       Tape it around. Same as I know of one place, they made boxing gloves. And they sewed them, made them out of canvas. Being made that way the canvas will cut. I’m drifting away from talking about….

TS        No, no, that’s….

PR       This here is a… I made that for my little grandson (shows us a homemade bat), ball-bat. It was made for the little boy, yeah.

TS        That’s beautiful. Is it ash? What is it, birch?

PR       No, it’s just made out of maple.

TS        It’s beautiful. [To WN] Feel, remember this? (Laughs) Isn’t that nice? That’s wonderful!

PR       So of all the…. I often… My wife, you know, she’s telling me about the Indian News and they talk about it (inaudible] and getting, gathering sports, they should have more, you know…. I suppose after you leave I will, but I don’t know. They played a lot of ball, I believe, in Pictou Landing.

TS        Oh yes, Pictou team. When you were a boy did you play baseball yourself, just for fun?

PR       Oh yeah.

TS        Did you play just with friends or in school?

PR       Well, we played ball, but we didn’t have…We, for the bases we had stones and there was one place that I played ball and for a back stop, we had a fishing net put up in the air. And handmade bats were more better than what they would have now because most bats that they make now is…. See this one here (shows his own homemade bat), it’s big out here but the way it’s draw-knifed, the draw knife is cut right down straight. And there is no….And here, the one’s that they make now, here it’s cut in too sharp. Where it should keep tapering down and then come out here (showing point on bat where the wider upper part joins the narrower lower part). And the grip was supposed to be with your fingers folded, and this hand jammed into that one, and that gives you the power, the lightest[?]. But if you held your hand loose this way and that way (flat around bat, without the fingers over one another) you wouldn’t have…. But if you fold your hand this way, and that gives that, it has more power to it, more grip.

Put your hand out to me (instructs TS put her hand out to show the different grip: PR’s grip places the index fingers and little fingers under the ring and middle fingers, then wraps the hand around the bat, vs the fingers lying flat against the bat). Now if I open my hand that way and folded my hand…. Squeeze your hand, I’m not going to squeeze hard….

TS        (Laughs) That’s okay.

PR       I wouldn’t have that much. But if I folded my hand this way as a karate squeeze and would pretty near rip your flesh.

TS        And that’s how you would hold the bat?

PR       Yeah. And that came around this way, and as them two squeezed down in between, see? That would be the same principle as on this bat here I’m showing you.

TS        So, you’re getting (inaudible)….

PR       With your hands this way like that, okay. And you put the other one, the other hand’s jammed closer in here. And both hands they squeeze one another.

TS        Isn’t that interesting.

PR       And that bat it becomes lighter. And by the bat being cut this way, all the way, and it’s got no hill to it or whatever… cheek on it, whatever. And it gives a much harder swing, a harder wallop. So, the handmade bat would be better than the….

I often thought of (to?) myself that they didn’t have a place for the Native people to be making baseball bats. (inaudible, to make a study out of it?) It was at that time in Bear River when they talked about bats, and I listened to them. They had told me that even three or four inches shorter on a bat it can be handled much quicker. That a longer bat and a heavier bat is going to be slower. But you want a short quicker bat. That’s why… what’s his name? Some ball players are sure to hit a ball if they’re holding a bat there (moves his grip up the bat) than up here because it makes it quicker. So therefore, if the bat was made a little shorter…. But they want their bat made long so that they ain’t going to…they figure they ain’t going to miss anything, you know. 

But I remember them talking about bats in Bear River, and Bear River Indian ball team. And Bear River…I am bragging up Bear River, about this team that they had. But at that time. and probably Joe Peters could tell you the same, they had a champion tug-o-war team. And I seen ’em practising; they practiced tug-o-war, the team. And when they practised, they had a big rope tied to an apple tree, and they would just hold the grip just practising for strength. Practising the grip. It’s the grip in your hand, yeah. If you just kept lifting weights and lifting weights…. Practise your grip first, and that’s where all the power is, it’s in the grip. And this tug-o’-war team they had, they had to be good, but they had to have the legs and the grip.

And the fella I’m telling you about, Joe Peters down there, if you were talking to him, yes, he’d be… quite a bit… he’s way older than I am. And I don’t know why, but I guess they couldn’t afford a ball, couldn’t afford to lose it anyway. It seems like now they have a lot of ’em, and baseball bats, slinging them around. I mean getting lost and that, no problem. Cause there seems to be more money or something.

(Begins to show us pictures not related to baseball; shows one man with his dog that carried packs on his back for travelling and trapping.) I have got pictures here. This man here, that’s how he travelled with all his luggage.

TS        Who is that?

PR       That’s a Native person, an Indian man, and when he went trappin’ or he went to town, the dog carried everything on his back. And he wasn’t a very big dog, it didn’t look to be, did it?

TS        Strong though, huh?

PR       Yeah. And I had taken that picture over there. Now, what have I got? Oh yeah, I’ve got the original. (PR continues looking through pictures)

TS        Oh good, okay.

PR       I’m okay. That was the one I had… and that’s the reason why I had all these pictures done over. This one here, especially. After Joe Meuse, after he passed away, I wanted to get a picture of him. So, in… these are pictures here of people from that place there.

TS        Where is this, Peter?

PR       That there is, that’s Levi Brooks. And Levi Brooks, this man might have played ball on that ball team.

TS        Bear River, you mean?

PR       Bear River.

TS        But he’s dead, right?

PR       And, John Paul… that’s John Paul’s wife. Kate Cope, Jim Meuse, Martin Pictou. There’s several of them could o’ had played ball, you know, on there. This man here. And that man, they’re from there. No, this man is not. He’s from down Molega. But Willy Meuse, he’s from Bear River. And these people here is just like… the old one that’s Joe Meuse there, and that’s Willie Meuse there. That man there and this man’s the same fella. So that would have been them when they were children here. This picture is way older than that one. This one here is real old.

TS        Is that in Bear River, here? Where is this?

PR       Right down here in Shubenacadie, right down….

WN     That’s here. There.

TS        What is this over their heads (inaudible)? Is it like an arbour?

WN     Yeah.

PR       Here’s the same man here, Martin Pictou. That would be the same man where? Right there. This is my boy, Russell. And that’s Helen’s grandmother. This picture here was taken of some people that lived up on the reserve up here, taken from the school.

TS        Was that the Residential School that was up here?

PR       Yeah. That (inaudible) was burned, being demolished, or whatever. And he would know these people here. There’s Levi Googoo and Knockwood…Noel Knockwood. And he is….

WN     Jimmy Googoo?

PR       Yeah. And there’s… this is when it was burned (shows picture of when school was burnt). These were older pictures back, so they don’t look too…. Now this, these are old pictures. This is an old picture. There’s a picture there that’s made out of tin. That’s about the oldest style there was, made of tin, see that?

TS        Who is that?

PR       Oh, I wouldn’t know who the person was, no. And this is another old picture of the old style, older style. And there was quite a few Indians lived in this place, Mill Village in… down in Liverpool. We’re not into ball game now!

TS        (Laughs) That’s alright! I like it all. Do you have any pictures of your grandfather? Was it Louis Luxie, did you say, was your grandfather?

PR       Yeah, I have pictures of Louis Luxie. And while we’re into sports, talking about this ball game, and I had mentioned Indian News, speaking about Isaac Thomas, was a welter-weight. He was a champion, he was a champion in Boston. And, there was two Indian men that were runners. There’s Noel Paul and John Paul. They were champion runners. But they were beat out. They were beat out by one man from Cape Breton. I forget his last name, first name was John. But he was a champion runner.

TS        When was this, do you know?

PR       They were good, he was…. I mean the races were 25 mile, and 10 mile races. Practised 20 miles running, but yet it comes to the time of racing…. And I talked to him about the races that he run and him and his brother would get into a race, that’d be John Paul and Noel Paul. If John had won the last race, well the fellas, they would all have their eyes on him. So, they would have to plan together, the two brothers would plan together. “They all got their eyes on you, and we’re going to run a race this afternoon, a ten-mile race in Yarmouth.” And they planned it. So, when they came out they were at the Indian reservation or the… in Yarmouth, the place they call Gravel Pit, or whatever. And as I was a kid, I suppose they didn’t think that I was taking it all in, and I was interested, you know, really, it was interesting. And he was telling his brother, he said “Now they’ll all have their eyes on you, and they’ll be scared of you. Whatever you do, they’re going to follow you.” And, he says, “I’ll hang back and save leg-power. I’ll hang back and just take my time, just as we were practising. So, when they start out, he says, “You run like hell, and they’ll all follow you.” And he says, “You run like hell and play yourself out. And they’ll play themselves out.” And it worked out because for 5 miles he run fast, and he played himself out and he played them out. And then his brother came in and went by them. That’s a game of takin’ a race between two brothers. And I overhear them and they were scheming their race out there.

WN     The rabbit, that is.

TS        Right, the tortoise and the hare!

PR       Same as the… I suppose it would be the same as a ball team. There’s the pitchers; they talked about the pitchers. A left-handed pitcher is always, seemed to be a winner. And if you got a ball team fixed up with two, three good pitchers in it, and most heavy batters, then you’re….

TS        Wallis, who is the left-handed pitcher Sandy was just telling us about? Ah, he just said, remember? We were at Sandy Julien’s.

WN     I don’t know.

TS        He said something about a left-handed pitcher. Now I understand why that was important.

PR       Well, could be most generally that there’s always a right-handed batter. And a lefthanded pitcher’s a… the batter can’t…. I don’t know why, but he can always fool him.

(Goes back to the pictures from WWI.) These are older pictures here.

TS        Who are they, the pictures?

PR       That’s First World War picture. Here’s two little Indian boys with gloves on.

TS        Boxing gloves.

PR       They had real… boxing gloves, I mean.

TS        Did you play with the Black team? You know, you said you were right between. Did you play baseball with Black children as well, when you were young, growing up?

PR       Yeah. And our team out there played against the Black teams.

TS        Which Black teams would there be?

PR       Well, there’d…gosh, I couldn’t really….That’s why I had said they were most generally beatin’ us. Because the Coloured fellas had most generally heavier hitters. You know what I mean, they were strong in the batting.

TS        Would they beat you as Bear River, or beat you when you were in Yarmouth?

PR       No. We were playing in Yarmouth then. And they most generally played on Sunday. Sunday afternoon. Yeah, these pictures here are older.

TS        But, did you have a mixed team, or…? Like Black and Mi’kmaq and White and everything all mixed together?

PR       Oh yeah, it was all mixed up.

TS       Didn’t matter whether you were Black or Mi’kmaq or…?

PR       Yeah. It didn’t matter. (Goes back to pictures.)

WN     There’s my aunt,

TS        Is that your aunt?

PR       That would be your aunt.

WN     Mary Jane.

PR       Yeah. I don’t think I’m going to get any sport pictures out of here. But they’re all older pictures.

TS        These are wonderful

PR       I’ll go over them kind of fast. A lot of players. This was up here (pointing to the Residential School that was located adjacent to PR’s property).

TS        I never realized how big it was, the school.

PR       That would have been an older picture. Even you touch it, it falls apart. Pieces fall off of that. There. And these children here, when the school was going when I to pick up these children, I have taken a picture of them. Then they got in the car. So, in it would have been… that was all John Lewis’ children. And that, I don’t believe you know, but that’s Viola Robinson.

TS        Yeah, I know of her, from all the posters.

PR       My sister-in-law.

TS        Oh, she is?

PR       They would have played ball here, see. And this, here….

TS        In the school?

PR       At the school up here.

TS        Did the girls play too, or just the boys?

PR       Oh, yeah, I guess they did. They had… on each side of the building they had a ball field made.

TS        Would that have been softball, you think, or hardball?

PR       Softball.

TS        Both teams? Male and female?

PR       Yeah. Both teams had…. Now this is my mother. She was 100.

TS        Is she still alive?

PR       No. She died about three, four years ago at 103.

TS        Amazing.

PR       You said Louis Luxie, yeah. And (inaudible] I’ll be right back with a picture I’ll show you. (TS says, “I brought you cookies if you want some.”) And I’m not so sure he might have been buried into Truro. But this is Louis Luxie, my grandfather. There’s my grandmother, my uncle. (They look at a picture with a priest and Mi’kmaq in regalia around the gravesite of a child.) This here is a plaque [?] they have across the river here. We went all through that before… not with… I don’t think I was speaking to you about it. And so, they had camp and lived here. And he’s, my grandfather, Louis Luxie, his grandfather was buried here. And these would have been the people here, too, that attended here.

TS        Here?

PR       Down there where the church is. See there were two churches down below. And the last one was up here at the Indian school. This was the priest. And when they had their gathering here… had their gathering there… and this here. The reason why they gathered round that and had their picture taken around that, because there was a young kid buried. There’s the grave.

TS        That mound there?

PR       That’s the mound. So, I got it measured out pretty well by looking at the church, see where the back and looking through the leaves over here. And you see the church, picture of the church there? When I go down here now, I show you the ground where the church sat, and there’s a well there. You clean the well out. And so, to figure, to look in this picture, in this graveyard to there, I’d say it’s about 60 feet. And I can go down there now, and take this picture and look at it, and the background (and back around?) and pretty near stand on it.

PR       Right here I’ll show you about. There’s where we have….

TS        Is that what you’re saying, the church?

PR       Yeah. And you turn that back, look on the other side, see. Tells you where the priest are and…. No, third person in, was it?

TS       (TS reads) “On right, third person from right is the priest. Bottom picture is Louis Luxie.” [Inaudible] (Laughter) Looks like Peter Ginnish.

PR       Yeah. Here in Truro they had… they’re showing pictures of this priest that… one priest he wrote prayer books, Mi’kmaw prayer books, he wrote them. He made them; he wrote ’em up. Father Pacifique. And Father Luke, that would be different. He was priest; he didn’t write this prayer books, Indian prayer books, Mi’kmaw. And so, some of them are figuring, they’re thinking that there’s only one priest. So, this fella here, he’s a different man, And I know someone would go out and they’d try to fool you and say that they know those people. But I travel, I went to Annapolis, before Aiden [?] Pictou, before he died. And he was a very old man. Then my wife’s father, before he died, he looked at these pictures…I showed him this picture. And both of them men they said, “No, I can’t name ’em. Before my time.” So, if somebody comes along about my age and gonna say that they know all these people. How come, you can’t? They would be lying. You know what I mean, they’re making up the names, pretending that they know, but they…. Because you have to find the oldest person to get the…. That’s the way history’s made.

WN     Where was this picture taken?

PR       I really, I don’t know for sure. Looks like by the door there. I remember, it could have been at their place in Yarmouth. Because he was buried in Yarmouth. All three of them. Louis Luxie, his wife, Mary, Lucy Luxie, my grandmother. Ben Luxie was my uncle Ben. They were buried in Annapolis.

WN     What was her maiden name?

PR       Michael.

WN     From the Valley there?

PR       Wildcat. Wildcat Falls.

WN     There was Michaels up there, huh?

PR       Yeah. Wildcat Falls. See they were buried in Greenfield, the Luxies and Truro.

TS        Where is this taken?

PR       This picture here is the ’18 (1918?). These people had… they had (business?) down here, ‘18. And here, this is only taken in 1936, because there’s my mother, and there’s me, and my brother(s). Somebody you might know. You know Basil Peters, the man who had a store outside of Truro, that’s him.

TS        What are they doing here? Are they, is this St. Anne’s…?

PR       Cherry Carnival.

WN     It’s held in July, isn’t it?

TS        Here?

WN     No, in Bear River.

PR       Yeah, celebration they have ’round Annapolis, in Annapolis County and Digby. They had a Cherry Carnival.

TS        Is that a Mi’kmaw thing?

PR       Colony (?) There’s that man… the man who’s name… this man here. He was the chief, Dominic Bradford, this man. And you see what he’s wearing?

TS        Yeah, some sort of wampum-looking thing.

PR       Okay, what proves…?

WN     He’s American. Is that Ellen?

PR       It’s Ellen’s mother. There’s Ellen, there’s Peter. Meuse, [inaudible) Meuse, died. Jim Harlow’s wife. What’s-her-name’s mother, oh yeah. She’s a chief over there in Hantsport, Or….

WN     Rita Smith?

PR       Yeah. Rita Smith’s mother. Freddy Harlow’s mother there. And this is John McEwan, Lila Peters. And there is… that’s herself, Rita. And that’s Rita’s sister, Mary. And this is Mary Peters. And that’s Clifford Pictou, my half-brother. This is Bennie Labrador. And I can’t remember that… Okay, Jim Meuse, Martin Pictou, Kate Cope, John Paul’s wife. And this is a Meuse. Here Jean (Jeanie [?] Glode… I don’t know what his first name is, his wife’s first name. Joe Lewis, this man there. And I’m back to that man again.

WN     I used to work for her! She lived in Shubie up there, on the reserve.

PR       And you were paid very small!

WN     I think she paid me a penny for hauling water.

TS        So is this an exhibition that they’re putting on, for this festival. Is that what that is?

PR       That’s Old Home Week. This is taken at Old Home Week….

WN     Yeah, the Cherry Festival down there. Down in Bear River, down near there.

TS        And Bradford was the chief?

PR       Starting Old Home Week, they had a parade. And after their parade for their sports, they had canoe race… canoe racing, and log-rolling. So, on the back here, 1936. That’s the bottom picture. This top one was 1899, and their names. So… Louis Peters, that’s Louis Peters’ father, John Labrador, and this man, why he’s here dead centre he was the chief, Malti Pictou,

TS        Chief of…?

PR       Bear River. And he’s a Pictou, that’s his brother, that’s this man here. And this is my wife’s grandfather, Joe Lewis’ father, John Lewis, this man. I can’t get that man… his name is on there, anyway.

TS        Eli Peter… Pictou?

WN     (Reads back of photo.) Eli Pictou, yeah.

PR       Levi. Well, there’d be three brothers, wouldn’t it? Three Pictou’s in that? No?

WN     There’s Louis Peters, John Peters, John McEwan, John Lewis, John Labrador, Malti Pictou….

TS:      Eli Pictou….

PR       And that was my mother’s (inaudible]….

WN     Eli Pictou.

TS        Was Jerry Lonecloud a chief, Peter?

PR       Well, I’m not sure of that. You got a lot of… you got pictures of him in Truro, Halifax….

TS        Yeah. No, I have a lot written by him. That’s why I’m asking.

PR       You have quite a bit written about him?  Hagie Luxie was buried in… into Lawrencetown outside Annapolis. And he lived in Annapolis. There’s Luxies are buried in Annapolis, down into the town, where the old graveyards are. Then there’s Native people buried up further, up the road further…Jacksonville Road, or Ben Jackson Road, whatever they want to call it. Here lately they’ve been burying people up there. that’s a newer graveyard…. because there was a lot of Native people adopted with no papers. And there’s a lot of graveyards… like I said, over 100 years ago, or over 150 years ago, that they don’t have maps or they just went and buried where they had camped for quite a while….

TS        Like at Kejimkujik?

PR       So there’s one…I have a tape here, an old Indian tape, where he talks about where graveyards are. And he talks about John Luxie…he’s talking. I’ve got the tape. If you want to hear it, I can play it. And I found that my… his father, Louis Luxie himself, is buried why he buried… down the other side of Greenfield. And where they had built the dam in 1928… they built the dam. And where he was buried and after they built the dam, the power dam, they flooded it. So, the Indian graveyard is down under there and that’s where his father would be. And then, farther from there, Joe Luxie’s father buried here. So, Louis Luxie, him, and his wife, and his boy there, Ben Luxie. They’re buried in Yarmouth. Then their children again, Louis Luxie’s children was buried in Bear River, up there on the grainfields [Greenfield?]. If you wanted me to play that tape, I could.

TS        Can we… Wallis has to get back to the Centre. Can I come another time and hear it, Peter? Is that alright?

PR       Yeah. This is… these are all my….

TS        Oh yeah, Isabelle.

PR       Yeah, you’ve seen all that. But these are all my pictures we’re putting in here.

PR       Yeah.

WN     We had some of them in the office, too.

PR       Yeah, I am holding you up quite a while, but I mean….

TS        Oh, it’s wonderful. You told me wonderful stuff. I have a daughter I have to get back to. He’s supposed to be back at work! Would it be alright if I came again, though, Peter, and dropped by and listened to that?

PR       Well, yeah. You happened to be a lucky day. Nobody seems to be….

TS        Bombing in and out?

PR       What I should have had on the tape, it’s… it came out in the Indian News here about six months ago, a story about the Luxies. Now, how could anybody, walking around here at 60 years old, or 55 years old, and tell me a story about the Luxies down there? Because when it… did they name the person that told that story? See what I mean? And you put a story in the Indian News they want to tell us and tell the people what the name is. But anyway, it’s just a lie. Don’t put lies in the Indian News.

TS        You just put it in history books (laughs)!

PR       You tell me the guy’s name, or the woman, and I’ll find her age, and to go back that far, go back and…I wouldn’t call them a liar; no it ain’t that. But how can they tell a story like that about this Luxie, and know so much about it, and they’re not related to that person? That’s what I think.

END OF TAPE NOVEMBER 10, 1992