The following interview is with Anne Darville and her daughter, Audrey Darville, at their home in Kjipuktuk (Halifax), Nova Scotia. This interview was originally done as part of the Nova Scotia Museum’s Urban Indigenous “This is What I Wish You Knew” exhibit, 2017. Sponsorship for the archiving of the project was through the Mi’kmaw Native Friendship Centre, Pam Glode-Desrocher, Executive Director, as part of the development of the Mi’kmaw Archival Project, Trudy Sable, Curator, with funding through the Nova Scotia Department of Communities, Culture, Tourism and Heritage (2022-2023).

AU – Audrey Darville
AD – Anne Darville
TS – Trudy Sable
KP – Kenneth (Kenny) Prosper

AU      My name is Audrey Darville, and this is my mother Anne, Anne Darville. She used to be a Marshall, her maiden name was Marshall from Eskasoni, Cape Breton and she’s been living here in Halifax since the early 50’s. And she met my father in a little restaurant, little café, the two of them were from totally different parts of the world, and they met in a little café, I think it was over Christmas time, and then the rest is history.

KP       [chuckles]

AU       But she also worked at Moirs Chocolates back in um, how many years ago? Was it the late 40’s?

KP       Oh she…

AU      You don’t remember?

KP       She moved here in the 50’s, right?

AU      Yeah but I think she…- yes early 50’s. So, I would say 1950, maybe 1949 or something like that. She worked there for a bit before she married my father and then, uhm, she raised five kids, there’s five of us. And after, well she eventually moved to Ottawa, and I think she was probably…- how old were you when you were in Ottawa? 60? Were you 60 years old?

AD      59 yeah.

AU      59?

AD      49.

AU      Oh 49.

AD      Or 50, yeah, you were right.

AU      49, 50, she went to Ottawa, and she became a, uhm, a home care worker. And she stayed up there for about 15 years? 10, 15 years. And then when she moved back here, she was uh, she still continued to work as a home care worker, loved her job. People really enjoyed her, and she also likes to, her hobbies are making baskets. I can probably show you a couple baskets. Yeah, I can put a couple baskets out. And she learnt how to make baskets when she was 75, from her friend Caroline Gould, and Caroline was 80, 80-something then I think.

KP       Must have been yeah.

AU      Yeah. And she’s, now she makes these wonderful baskets, and she also sells them at the Art Gallery. But she doesn’t make them anymore, she’s…these ones here she made last year, and she was 89. She still has nimble fingers, and she likes to paint, she does some little painting here and there. So, she likes to keep busy. Yeah, and she still speaks the language. Not as much as she used to.

TS        Could you say something in Mi’kmaw?

AU      Say something in Mi’kmaw, Ma. Say that uh, that uh you came to Halifax.

AD      I like Halifax?

AU      Yeah, just say you like Halifax and you know some people here.

AD      [chuckle] I like Halifax. Uh, oh! Kesalul Kjipuktuk. Gee [chuckle] what else?

AU      Well say that you like to make baskets in Mi’kmaw.

AD      What?

AU      Just say you like to make baskets.

AD      I make…

AU      You like to make baskets.

AD      Not for a living, it’s just…

AU      It’s a hobby.

AD      …something to do.

AU      Yeah, you can say it in Mi’kmaw too, you know? Want to say it in Mi’kmaw? You know Veronica, her friend from, Veronica the nun.

KP       Sister Veronica, yeah.

AU      Sister Veronica always insists that she speaks Mi’kmaw when they’re together.

AD      She always, we always, you know?

AU      And when they’re together, they sing, they’re down here laughing and singing, and oh it’s so funny. It’s so cute watching them, hearing them, actually.

TS        Could you say where you’re from and when you were born, if you don’t mind?

AD      What did she say?

AU      Where you are from and where you were born and the date.

TS        And then when you moved to Halifax.

AU      And when you moved to Halifax…May 10^th.

AD      Oh May.

AU      You were born in May

AD      May 10^th.

AU      Yeah.

AD      1926

AU      You’re from Eskasoni.

AD      Eskasoni.

TS        And your parents? Could you say who your parents are? Were, I should say?

AU      The name of your parents.

AD      Huh?

AU      The name of your parents.

AD      Madeleine, my mother name’s Madeleine. Uh, Peter, my father’s name is Peter.

TS        Marshall?

AU      Marshall, yeah, from Eskasoni, Cape Breton.

TS        How many are you, were you in your family?

AU      How many brothers and sisters did you have?

AD      Oh I don’t know

AU      You don’t know?

AD      There were so many. I think it’s nine.

KP       Nine?

AD      Altogether.

AU      Nine.

AD      Yeah.

TS        Five children…

AD      So, three sisters and uh, when I was—I don’t remember my brother—and when my sister, they died one day apart. That’s all I remember.

AU      How old were they?

AD      I don’t know.

AU      Were they little? Or old?

AD      I’m sorry, I think because I was only small anyways, I don’t know.

AU      Were they younger?

AD      I think it’s three, two or three. They were playing outside. They went outside you know, there were no houses around you see and uh, they… one, one, one, one of them came in and laid on the couch and whatever they’ve got, I don’t know what they got, a couch or bed or something, laid down there. And the other one, same thing, you know, same thing…walk in, went to the bed, never wake up. So, they think that they pick something, berries or something…you know poison and eat it. I don’t know. I really don’t know what but…

AU      Yeah, it’s pretty sad.

AD      That’s all I remember.

TS        Did any other of your family move to Halifax?

AU      Were you the only one that moved to Halifax? Did any other brothers and sisters move to Halifax?

AD      Am I the only one alive?

AU      No.

AD      What?

AU      Were you the only one that moved to Halifax?

AD      Yes.

AU      Yeah. Everybody stayed in Eskasoni?

AD      Yes.

TS        So you were talking last time about living where you lived on Main Avenue and growing up.

AU      Yes.

TS        And that was a really important story, I thought, too.

AU      Oh okay, yes.

TS        If you don’t mind talking about yourself and your mother in that era of time and Mi’kmaw coming to…you described some Mi’kmaw people coming and selling flowers, I think.

AU      Yeah. So, when I was a kid, there were five of us and we lived in Fairview, which was a suburb of Halifax. That would have been back in the 60’s, and I remember as a kid, Mi’kmaw women coming to the house selling baskets and they also sold May flowers, your favourite May flowers. But I would see them from across the street because I would be playing with my friends. So, I never knew that… I knew they were Mi’kmaw but I wasn’t quite sure because I never really considered myself being Mi’kmaw at the time, or half Mi’kmaw, never did, and in a strange kind of way. But it was nice that when they came into the house, my mother would be talking to them and…I’m not sure if they came in for tea…but anyway, that would be, besides going to Eskasoni in the summertime to see my other siblings, yeah. I’ve never really had any other contact with Native people in Halifax, period. So that was kind of neat. And um, she also had a friend up the street, the Hulls. Remember the Hulls up the street?

AU      Yeah.

KP       Was that Cynthia? What was her real name, Jane? Jane? Was her real name Jane?

AD      Jean.

KP       Jean?

AU      Yup.

KP       She was a Prosper from Afton.

AU      Oh, was she?

KP       She married a Hull.

AU      Oh okay.

AD      Her last name was Prosper.

KP       Prosper was her maiden name.

AU      Yeah, yeah, so, and yeah, that would be my only real contact in the city with Native people. But she always spoke the language, and she taught us a few words and it was really kind of neat. I wish I knew more. So, even as a kid, when we used to go to Eskasoni, we always spoke English.                                                                                                                                                                                            

KP       Yeah.

AU      With my cousins and you know, my other siblings and uh, I wish we would have spoken more Mi’kmaw. But anyway, we didn’t…

AD      I remember one time you know, she was going to swim in the river. And uh, then Marie-Ann, said “tami” and you were mad because she think that uh…

AU      She called me a dummy?

KP       “Tami” means “where” [laughter]

AU      Where?

KP       Yeah.

AU      Oh okay. [more laughter]

AD      Dummy, [laughter] you the dummy!

AU      Funny.

AD      And she gets mad, and uh, [laughing] dummy.

AU      Oh well. No, I was at, I think my best summers were spent at Eskasoni. I always had a good time.

TS        Did you spend the whole summer or…?

AU      I don’t think so. I think we spent, what, a week or so?

AD      What?

AU      We spent about a week or so in Eskasoni?

AD      I feel I think it’s uh, five days.

AU      Then we take a train down.

AD      Yeah [chuckles].

AU      Yeah and a lot of that I don’t remember because we slept a lot of the time; it was a long trip. So, or bus, I can’t remember. Did we take a bus or mostly the train? When we went to Eskasoni when I was a kid? We took the train and the bus sometimes?

AD      Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah.

TS        Was this in the 60’s… 70’s?

AU      That would have been 70’s.

TS        Okay.

AD      Which friend?

AU      60s, 70’s.

AD      I don’t have much friends. I don’t have many friends, just mom and Veronica’s family.

AU      Veronica’s the nun.

KP       Only one now left is her sister and her family.

AD      Yeah, yeah.

AU      So now there’s, yeah, so, we…now she went to Eskasoni last year to go to Elizabeth’s, her friend’s funeral, and uh…

KP       Elizabeth’s sister’s sister.

AU      Yeah, yeah. Took me a while to figure out the two sisters. I didn’t realize one was a sister and the other one was a sister sister [laughing] so, looks like…

KP       [laughter] Elizabeth Berube. Elizabeth Berube was her married name.

AU      Yeah, so um, yeah so, we went… but she doesn’t stay very long; she gets very impatient that she wants to come back, so yeah. So, she feels uh yeah, she feels you know, this is more comfortable for her being here and she’s got her own space and everything.

TS        When the women came to the door selling May flowers and baskets, did you, Annie, speak Mi’kmaw?

AU      Yes, she would speak Mi’kmaw. Yeah, when the ladies, when we were living on Main Avenue, when the ladies came to the house, you would speak to them in Mi’kmaw? Remember the ones that used to sell the little baskets? They used to sell Easter baskets. She may not remember.

AD      I don’t.

AU      Yeah, I remember because I used to see these ladies. There were two or three of them.

TS        Do you remember their names?

AU      No, I think they just came. And actually the Black women from Preston used to do the same. They used to sell May flowers, but now she may not remember them, but I remember them.

TS        So that would have been around Easter time I’m assuming.

AU      It would be spring, always be around spring.

KP       That’s when May flowers come out, in May.

AU      Yeah, and it’s her favourite flower.

KP       Yeah spring, April and May is Easter, usually.

TS        Well, I was interested in the story that you told also about not identifying as Mi’kmaw. Annie was talking about that for a bit, that was…

AU      When she was younger, ‘cause she’s the youngest of all of her siblings, she always wanted to be like a white person like everybody else. So, she didn’t really… she wasn’t as traditional, as I would say the rest of her siblings. She was bit of a black sheep of the family. You were a bit of a black sheep. She was very independent.

AD      What?

AU      You. You worked at an early age,

AD      Yeah.

AU      You always bought shoes. Fancy shoes, you liked…when you were younger.

AD      Yes.

AU      Yes. You worked at an early age, and you liked to make, you know, some money and then you would buy nice shoes…

AD      Oh, it was a yeah, it was a war time then.

AU      It was war time, yeah.

AD      Second World War.

AU      Yeah, yeah.

AD      So, I buy my shoes… it wasn’t too much money every month.

AU      Mhm.

AD      But that time is strange, I can buy what I order, what I need.

AU      Yeah.

KP       She worked here during the war time? For, for a year?

AU      She probably worked in Sydney then. I think she came over here with her brother once because her brother was in the…

KP       Army.

AD      In the army, yeah.

AU      In the army, and he was stationed at the Citadel barracks, and he brought her over. This would have been in the 40’s, and she stayed at the YMCA, which used to be right across the street. Yeah, yeah. And they stayed for a couple days and then she’d go back home, but um…yeah, she liked the city. Always did like the city.

TS        Can you say more about wanting to be white?

AU      Oh, sorry. Yes, so she wanted to be, yes, she wanted to be a white person. Well, she felt like uhm, why did you feel like you wanted to be like a white person?

AD      What is it?

AU      Why did you feel like you wanted to be more like a white person? Remember when you were growing up, you wanted to be more like a white person, you wanted to do different things, you wanted to…

AD      I don’t know why.

AU      She wanted to dress…

AD      No, I just want, I think I just wanted to speak in English.

AU      Yeah, you didn’t want to really…

AD      I don’t know.

AU      I think that’s kind of a personal question too. I think she wanted to feel like uh, you know, it’s again, it’s, I don’t know if it’s a racial thing, but at the time you just want to blend in with everybody else and I think I felt the same way. Once I got into Jr High, high school, people would sort of, I never felt any discrimination but, you just want to be like everybody else. You just want to feel like, you know, you don’t have to answer very personal questions, like where you’re from or, you know, what nationality you are.

AD      You learnt some Mi’kmaw. Remember Me’tal-wuleyn?

AU      Yeah, yeah, oh you were a very good teacher, you’re a very good teacher. She taught me couple words. I think each one of my siblings know a few little more different words than me, so. I only know one or two.

TS        So you knew you were Mi’kmaw?

AU      Uh, well, oh right now. Well, I guess in a self-conscious way of course I knew because I was going to Eskasoni, but once I’m back into the city again, I’m like, just me again. I’m just like, you know, just like all my other friends you know. We’re just all basically the same and sort of spiritually, I guess. All my friends were from uh, you know, I grew up with…we all went to the same school, went to the same church. Our fathers pretty much had all the same jobs, and so we’re all basically brought up in this sort of, you know, almost the exact same identical way of life back in the 70’s.

TS        But didn’t you say your own father was from the Bahamas?

AU      Yeah, my father’s from the, yeah, but he was Anglo, he was an Anglo-Saxon, white person. So, he, um, you know he just blended in with everybody else, you know. He had a little accent but that was about it. Yeah, and then I, once I got to be more comfortable with who I am, on both sides of my family, I wanted to know more about my background. And on my mother’s side, there was very little information on Native culture in the city. So, I would go here, and I would go there and bookstores. They said the only books you’ll find are in England, or colouring books or children’s books, or you know that type of thing. So, it wasn’t until, I would say maybe the 80’s or 90’s, when I started reading more on the AIM movement in the States with Russell Means and that bunch, but to me they were s still, they weren’t Canadian. But it led me on to other books and other folklore and stories and that type of thing. And then the odd time we would go to a, we would go to a powwow. We’d be driving somewhere and it’s like, “Oh there’s a powwow going on!” and we would go to it. So, that was always fun.

TS        What was that like?

AU      Oh you just want to dance, and you know eat the food, and just sort of mingle with everybody. It was always very, um, everybody was so connected. I think it was because there was a sense of freedom, I don’t know if you felt that way, you just, especially when the music is going.  I just feel like everything is just, “whoa”, this whole, that side of you just wants to participate so much. I just feel like a, it’s a really neat feeling. I just want to get up there and start dancing, and you know, stuff, it’s just great. And she feels very comfortable too, she’ll sit there. Normally she doesn’t sit for very long, so there’s definitely a connection. And she loves the drumming, the drumming part of it.

TS        I have some tapes if you want some [laughs].

AU      Yes, it was… I did buy some CDs at one place that we were in Gold River, in Bridgewater, or just outside Bridgewater.

KP       Is that where you went to the powwow?

AU      Yeah, we went there because we usually go to the Treaty Gas…I have a cottage just outside there too, not too far away. And we go to the Treaty Gas there and then there’d be a powwow up the street. But there’s a lot of like competing and dancing and the music so. The music that I did get wasn’t her, she didn’t care for it. It was too much, not enough drumming. Yeah. Running (?), screaming, yeah, yeah.  

TS        Did you, do you still try to go to powwows?

AU      We make a point sometimes if we know it’s going to be around at the same time, again, in Gold River I have a cottage not too far away from there.

KP       Usually it’s around early September, they have it in Gold River.

AU      Yeah.

TS        Can I ask you now about getting your status back? You mentioned that…

AU      In the 1980’s yes, because my Mom, when she came here, uh when she left the reserve they, “they” meaning the Council.

KP       Or Indian Affairs.

AU      Or Indian Affairs, the government, bought her status or took her status away from her and gave her $10 and then that was it. She lost her status, she uh, you know, she came away with a, with a, you know, just like a…it wasn’t a good time for her. You know, it was pretty um, I think she felt pretty disappointed.

TS        So, just to clarify, when you came to Halifax.

AU      Yeah.

KP       She married a non-Native man.

AU      Yeah, she married…

TS        When you married, it was when you got married.

AU      Yeah, when she married a non-Native man. And then um, so she lost her status, yeah. So, it wasn’t until the 80’s when the government passed that..

KP       Bill C-31

AU      Yeah, Bill C-31 that she got her status back and then myself and my other siblings also got our status, which was really nice. I thought that was really neat.

TS        It sounds like you went through quite a transition, yourself.

AU      Yeah, I think so.

TS        That’s what I’m hearing.

AU      In a spiritual way because you go around thinking, you know, we all grow up wondering why we’re here or you know, and why am I here? And things like that, you kind of question yourself, but once you’re spiritually contented with yourself, knowing who you really are, then it makes life a lot easier. I think it’s all within who you are spiritually. And that goes for a lot of other things too, whether you’re Gay or whether you’re of mixed race, you want to know who you really are. And, once you do, it’s just such a relief.

TS        Do you have children yourself?

AU      None, no.

TS        So status wouldn’t be an issue then for your own.

AU      Uh, no.

KP       Just your nieces and nephews.

AU      Just your nieces and nephews. Depends on the reserve too, because I know when my brothers died, um, I was talking to my sister-in-law, Mary, Joseph’s wife, and she did mention that his kids could get their status and they did.

KP       Yeah that goes now, that’s another that bill passed.

AU      Yeah that’s another bill that passed.

KP       Bill C-3 I think it’s called.

AU      Yeah, yeah, so now they have their status. But I think because they’re farther away from the bloodline, it doesn’t seem to be as important to them, I guess. It’s hard to say. But anyways, because for any of my siblings to actually meet and fall in love with a Native person I think it’s going to be pretty, pretty, it’s like me, like I, you know, it’s going to be pretty rare.

KP       Because you’re not, you’re away from the community.

AU      Yeah, I’m away from the community.

KP       So you meet whoever [laughter].

AU      Yeah, you do and that’s how you just, you know, the line keeps going back and it starts to thin out a bit.

TS        That’s what Roger Lewis said too, it’s like the Indian Act is sort of like um, bureaucratic genocide, cultural genocide.

AU      Yeah exactly.

TS        Because like you said, people come to the city. They’re you know…

AU      But I do believe that we are all exactly the same, like our DNA, as far as being a human being. They found the oldest skeleton in Africa and that was like ground zero for humans in general. So, and then of course, then they spread out…

KP       Through the Earth.

AU      Through the world, yeah, the Earth. And I think it’s all coming back to that; I think we’re all kind of like this big…

KP       [blending? inaudible]

AU      …pot of different nationalities because we’re all human beings.

TS        Can we go back again to growing up and living on Main Avenue? I think you at one point, there was one point you made last time, Annie made last time, about being afraid of the government. Partly why she didn’t want to identify you might say.

AU      Yeah, you know the government, you know whenever the… on the reserve, or I would say mostly on the reserve, but um, you know with the, with the um, Indian Agents?

KP       A lot of people were afraid of those Indian Agents.

AU      Yes, because they ruled your life. Remember the stories you told me about the Indian Agents when you were younger?

AD      Yes.

AU      And you would have food rations?

AD      Yes.

AU      So tell, uhm…

AD      I don’t know, it wasn’t that much. I think it’s $10, no more, a month.

AU      Yeah, for food.

AD      Yeah, for food.

AU      Yeah, and you got flour?

AD      Yes. Yes, we got mostly sugar and tea.

AU      Sugar and tea.

AD      And the rest we have a lots of food that, you know.

AU      Yeah you grew your own, you grew your own. But you only got $10. But the, but the agents, were um, you know, they kind of ruled, didn’t they? They would go to the reserve, and they would say, “Okay, you got to go to school, you got to do this, you got to do that”. And weren’t you kind of like uh, you know, “here comes the agents! Let’s close the doors” [chuckles]. Yeah, they had a, would be, I guess, equivalent to having like..

AD      Then my mother adopted a baby.

AU      Oh yes, and your mother adopted a baby. Yeah, but I think Trudy wants to know about uhm…

TS        In the city, actually.

AU      Oh in the city.

TS        She mentioned not wanting to identify, also because I thought because…

AU      No, that was, that no, I think… In a sense, yeah, I think I can’t remember exactly how I said it but um, I don’t know what was… I don’t know if the agents dealt with her in the city, but I think when she came to the city, that’s again, that’s when she lost her Native status and that type of thing. Um, can’t remember, Trudy, why, we would have said that, but you know she was always leery of anything government because they grew up that way. They just grew up kind of with that kind of fear.

TS        Well, truthfully, a very sad piece of the Indian Act ‘til 1951 was that no ‘Indian’ could live near or within the city.

AU      Okay.

TS        And that was ’51, and she would have been here right, I guess, after that.

AD      Yeah after that.

TS        Right.

AU      And again, maybe yeah. I guess because I didn’t know anything of this until I was older, so…

TS        I just discovered that.

AU      Okay, yeah. But she would have grown up with that whole…

KP       But that was probably not enforced that much. There were lots of families living here.

AU      Yeah.

KP       During the early 1900’s in Dartmouth.

AU      Oh, yeah but I think they were there for generations and generations, weren’t they?

KP       Yeah, some.

TS        Do you remember who, Kenny, was in Dartmouth? I’m bringing him in now. Where? Or where?

KP       Nevins family moved to Tufts Cove area around 1912.

AU      Yeah because there was a reserve there.

KP       They were more like considered squatters.

AU      Considered squatters? Because…

KP       Because somebody claimed the land there, but they’ve been going there for years so…

AU      Yes. I know when I was reading in the paper about um Shannon Park, how there’s a small section of it that was like a Native reserve. There’s even a…

KP       It wasn’t really a reserve, but they just camped there…

AU      Oh okay

KP       … for years and years, and then somebody…

AU      And then they were transferred to Truro?

KP       Some moved away, and some stayed.

TS        That was during…

KP       That was after the explosion.

AU      Okay.

TS        And centralization took place in 1942, a lot of people were moved to Shubenacadie and Millbrook.

AU      Now, if she could hear you, she could probably fill you in a lot more about that because her mother…

TS        Can you ask?

AU      Now your mother was born, she was born in?

AD      North Sydney.

AU      In North Sydney or Whycocomagh?

AD      No, North Sydney is…

KP       That’s where there were (several?) families used to live in the early 1900’s.

AU      Oh, okay. And you remember visiting your grandmother? Remember you used to say you used to visit your grandmother?

AD      Yes.

AU      She wasn’t very friendly?

AD      No, not to me anyways.

KP       Who was her gran…- her father’s mother or?

AD      I never liked her.

AU      She never liked…- and that was your mother’s mother?

AD      Yes

AU      Or your father? And where did she live?

AD      In Sydney.

AU      Sydney.

AD      Reserve.

AU      In Sydney Reserve

AD      Yeah. We used to go out and play with the girl, play with the girls, my friends, and before dark…

KP       Was her name Angeline?

AD      What?

KP       Was her name Angeline? Angeline?

AD      Angeline yeah.

AU      Your grandmother?

AD      Uh, before it’d get dark you know, I wanted to go home, and can you imagine? The door was locked.

AU      She locked the door?

AD      And knocked and knocked. Nobody answered. So, Donny Marshall’s mother, next door, she said, “Come on here, Annie, they’re not going to open the door”. So, she…

KP       That would have been um, King’s Road?

AD      Huh?

KP       King’s Road Reserve?

AD      Yeah.

KP       That’s where I remember she used to be at one time, King’s Road.

AU      Yeah, okay. No, I thought…

KP       I don’t know when they moved to.

TS        I’ve got that at home, but it was in that same period of centralization.

KP       I don’t remember when they moved to where Membeou is now.     

TS        I think it was 19- um, I’ve got it at home Kenny. I just was reading it.

AU      I’m sure if she had more information…

KP       Donald Marshall, Donald Marshall was her cousin.

AD      Yeah, he my first cousin.

KP       Was the Grand Chief.

AU      Yeah.

TS        Yeah, but I was interested in what you were saying. Do you remember where people were living in Dartmouth? You said Shannon Park.

KP       Tufts Cove area

AU      Tufts Cove.

KP       That area near the smokestacks.

AU      Yeah.

TS        Do you remember how many, roughly, people were?

KP       I have it at home, I don’t know how many.

AU      I haven’t a clue. I know there’s a…

KP       Ten, fifteen…ten families maybe or something.

AU      Yeah, over the, over um.

KP       Living in wikuoms or tar paper shacks.

AU      Okay, yeah.

TS        Are there pictures of that?

KP       I think so.

AU      Probably. Then they have a boneyard (?) or a graveyard I’ve never been to in Dartmouth by the bridge, by the McDonald bridge.  Have you ever gone there?

KP       I’ve seen that, except marker (?)

AU      It’s markers (?), is it? Okay, I’ve never been there.

TS        It’s right down from where my daughter lives.

AU      Oh, okay, nice. Beautiful spot.

TS        And I think there’s some questions about that particular… Roger knows.

AU      Okay.

KP       I don’t know either. I know there’s (inaudible) near, close to McDonald Bridge.

TS        Could we just go back to Annie because I know you have to go soon as well, I’m trying to get as much uhm, as much.

AU      Yes.

KP       Huh.

AD      [inaudible]

KP       After dinner.

AU      Okay mom, she’s going to ask you some questions now.

TS        I wanted to hear more about her experience at the Halifax Cl…-

AD      I can’t hear, I don’t, I just can’t hear from you.

TS        Yeah I know, that’s why I’m asking , yeah.  What her experience at the Halifax Club, what her job was there…

AU      Oh right.

TS        And what year?

AU      Yes!

TS        That’s a very elite club.

AU      Yes!

TS        And it didn’t dawn on me ‘til later.

AU      I didn’t know it until you mentioned it, until she mentioned it last time.  Remember when you worked at the Halifax Club? 

AD      Yes.

AU      What did you do at the Halifax Club? Did you do the cleaning or…?

AD      Uh, no.  It was kitchen work.

AU      Kitchen work.

AD      Yeah. You, you cleaned dishes and there was a food going down… uh, they put the food.

AU      Like a dumbwaiter.

AD      Something you know

AU      Like an elevator?

AD      Something going down next floor and you have to…I don’t know what I did for that but anyway.  Oh, I put the food there and cleaned the dishes after.

AU      And that was at the Halifax Club?

AD      Yes, that was at the Halifax Club.

AU      Wow, wow, and when was this?  What year was this?

AD      First time I came here.

AU      Okay, was it in ’56 or…?

AD      First time I came here.

AU      Do you remember the date? How old were you?

AD      I don’t know.

KP       [chuckles]

AU      Okay.

KP       Must be when she met your dad at that time.

AU      It would have been before that.

KP       Oh before that?

AU      Would have been before that, yeah. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was here for a year or so before.

TS        How did she get the job?

AU      How did you get the job?

AD      On a paper.

AU      Oh it was in the paper.

AD      At the paper, newspaper.

KP       Oh you just applied.

AD      I know the paper wanted, needed, you know kitchen work or whatever it is. I don’t know what they called it. Yeah, I think it’s kitchen work they called it. So, I asked for it and well they said come for interview, so I went. Get the job and where I lived, you know, where to stay I mean.

AU      So where did you stay?  Where did you stay at the time?

AD      Yeah, I stayed there.

AU      You stayed at the club too?

AD      Oh yeah, and I stayed with a lady with one room. She was a, I don’t know, she what she was doing back then but anyways.

AU      She was always lucky with jobs. She always had a job.

AD      Not much money but I don’t care [chuckles], yeah.

TS        So you stayed at the club with another woman?

AU      So you stayed at the club with another woman, or did you stay in her own apartment?

AD      No, I think I was staying with…Yes, I stayed in the same room with her.

AU      Did she have her own room inside the club or was it that she had her own apartment?

AD      No, after that I went, I went to I think… gosh I don’t know where I went.

AU      Okay she…

AD      Oh, oh find another job. Minding the two kids.

AU      Oh yes, yep. That was yes.

AD      Barbara…

AU      Was a hairdresser.

AD      Oh dear, it’s an easy name but I don’t remember.

AU      Yeah. I don’t think she stayed in the club. I think she just worked there.

TS        And then she worked at the Moirs?

AU      Yeah. When did you, when did you work at Moirs Chocolates? Was it before you worked at the club or after?

AD      After I yeah. After I married to your dad.

AU      Oh really? Okay, wow. Okay. (Interruption due to voices in the background)

TS        So, could I ask how it was, what it was like? How long she worked at the club, at the Moirs and what it was like? The conditions working when she did.

AU      Okay. How long did you work at Moirs Chocolates?

AD      I don’t know.

AU      A year maybe?

AD      Yes, I don’t know, maybe.

AU      Was it before Fred or after Fred?

AD      After what?

AU      After Fred, you had Fred or was it before you had Fred?

AD      Uh, I think yeah. I had uh, uhm, I had Fred at that time.

AU      And his godparents?

AD      Yeah. And the people, uh they own taxis. I met the girls there, the chocolate working together. Two girls I met. So um, I asked them you know about the baby I had, I need somebody to mind. They say, the next day they say, we’ll ask our moms. So, Miller I think? I don’t know their names but anyways, they own a taxi, it was my friend (Sally? inaudible) likes them too?

AU      Oh that’s nice.

AD      Fred likes her too you know. And uh, when I pick him up Friday, I think it’s weekend, he ran away from me. He likes that (inaudible)

AU      They probably spoiled him.

AD      They like him.

AD      He uh, Fred was my older brother.

TS        So he was being baby sat? While you were working?

AU      Yeah. She met these two girls at Moirs. Yeah, and so that, so yeah you wouldn’t have worked there for very long. Probably worked there for what… you probably only worked there maybe for a year or so.

AD      Well I stopped and I went back again. I don’t remember all of that, but I know that I stopped.

AU      Okay.

TS        Did you like working there? Was…

AU      Did you like working there at Moirs Chocolates?

AD      Oh yeah.

AU      Yeah? And that was down at the waterfront? The old one?

AD      No, it wasn’t waterfront.

AU      Where was it?

AD      Well you know St. Paul Church?

AU      St. Paul Church?

AD      Yeah.

AU      They had a Moirs Chocolates at St. Paul Church?

AD      You know, everybody knows where the St. Paul Church is.

AU      Yeah.

AD      You know, the…-

AU      Downtown?

AD      Window broken.

AU      Yes.

AD      Yeah.

AU      Downtown, yeah.

KP       Is that the one by um…

AU      It’s in the Parade Square

KP       Parade square, yeah okay.

AU      So they had a Moirs Chocolate company there?

AD      Yeah Moirs Chocolate.

AU      I should look in my old book of uhm, of downtown Halifax, yeah.

AD      And they ask people if they want to work like at dinner hour, we’re supposed to have a dinner hour. And I worked, oh before dinner, I went to chocolate (?) across the street. Gee, where was I…but anyways, uh well I get a free meal.

AU      [chuckles] Yeah.

AD      Passed near the food, put the food, in the counter you know.

AU      Like a buffet? Like a buffet?

AD      I don’t…- Yes something like that, put, take the dishes away.  I, I think it’s my job anyway.

AU      Uhm, so Moirs Chocolate is gone now. That building is gone?

TS        Is this the one?

AU      Where you used to work.

AD      No, after that I guess [inaudible].

AU      Oh wow, not sure if it’s that one.

AD      There’s a light here.

AU      Right here ma, that’s the big one. Does that look familiar?

AD      Is that Chocolates?

AU      Moirs Chocolates.

AD      Yes, yes.

AU      Does that look like the building you worked at?

AD      Oh that looks big.

AU      Yeah, this was the one down, I thought it was down at the waterfront.

AD      It was, it was very low.

TS        I think it’s Argyle Street.

AU      Argyle Street, okay. Yeah, if it was anywhere by St. Paul’s Church, she might have didn’t realize how big it was. She might have worked on that main section of it.

TS        I think there’s some other pictures of it, [TS looking on her computer for pictures]. There’s one picture of all the ladies doing the chocolates, that’s what I’m trying to find. If you wonder what I’m doing over here.

AU      I wonder what year that would be.

TS        It looks like the war era. I don’t know if I can find it right off.

AU      This would have been ’56.

AD      I’ve got that light on but I couldn’t find a switch.

AU      Yeah, that’s okay ma, she doesn’t need it.

TS        I’m okay, I’m good, I’ll find it later, afterward. Anyway, so how are you doing? You alright?

AU      Good. She feels good, couple minutes left.

TS        All right, do you want to say or could you say more about your life on Main Street? Was um, what kind of situation was that at that time in Halifax?

AU      Well, Main Avenue again, that part of Fairview was very rural. And um, and with my childhood, everything, like I said, everybody knew everybody because we went to the same schools, we went to the same churches. We kind of, my whole neighborhood, we all grew up together because everybody had like five to you know fifteen kids, so we were all close in age. As far as um, my mother living there, she basically just took care of us and didn’t really have much of a life as far as, well besides being a parent and a caregiver to us. And we just kind of moseyed on with our lives. I always wanted to be a grown up, I didn’t like being, I don’t think I liked being a kid. I always felt like, “Oh my god, I can’t wait to grow up, I can’t, you know why am I still stuck in this body?” So, yeah, there were so many things I wanted to do experience and see and stuff so, yeah.  I wanted to work, and I guess explore too. So, yeah.

TS       I know you have to go so I didn’t want to drag it out too long. How are you for time?

AU      Oh I got about ten minutes; I’ll say ten minutes yeah.

TS        Sort of a piece in here I guess I’m still looking for, um, maybe it’s not there. But that era of you growing up in, over in Fairview, kind of the non status. How is your basic life and did you think of yourselves as Urban Aboriginal?

AU      That’s…

TS        That’s a big word these days, that’s why I asked that you know.

AU      An urban native person?

TS        Yeah, as an identity, now.

AU      No.

TS        No.

AU      Never did, I don’t, I don’t think, I don’t think, maybe Kenny knows uhm, because he’s a little older than I am but he also knows the culture better than I, than I do.

KP       But I grew up on the reserve.

AU      Yes, see you grew up on the reserve. I, I have no concept of reserve life at all and um, what is it to be a Native person. I have no problem with um, I have never had any problems, any racial problems. I’ve never had any incidences where I was discriminated against, never. I always felt like if I, I was always very quiet and introverted when I was growing up but now I find that working as a hairstylist you have to talk to people and you have to sound reasonably sensible. So, I figured, well you know this is the way life goes , and if you sound like if you’re insecure about yourself, it just makes everything centralized on me. It’s like, “Oh there’s that you know, sensitive Native girl,” you know. I just, it’s funny because I never really thought of it that way until now. Um, my own interpretations of myself, I guess has been a rural Native person.

TS        Rural did you say?

AU      I mean urban!

KP       [laughter]

TS        No, I was asking because you said it was sort of rural where you grew up too.

AU      Yeah, I guess it is. Yes, you’re right because it’s a, yeah that part of the area was all woods and everything. So um, yeah. I knew there was more to it than just, than just this little area that I grew up in.

TS        Did you come down into the main part of Halifax?

AU      No, we were kids. We were not allowed around this area because it was so, it was really, it was a bad part of the town. You know and um…

TS        What was it like?

AU      Oh my god, it was terrible.

TS        What you’d call Halifax right now was…

AU      Oh now it’s…

KP       Downtown area, you mean.

AU      The downtown yeah, downtown area it’s all the same. It was always, especially before the ramp under the bridge, there used to be houses along there. It was the bad side of town. You know there was a lot of drugs, a lot of you know, just riff raff, that kind of thing. So, we were never allowed downtown. I didn’t come downtown until I first started working on South Street, and I was probably, I think I was 20, so…

TS        So where would you shop or…

AU      Oh the Halifax Shopping Centre.

TS        Okay.

AU      We’d go down, we’d take the bus. Me and the girls, we’d go down to Halifax Shopping Centre, and when Scotia Square went up, that was a big adventure. So, you know, you’d hop on a bus you just hung out down at the Scotia Square all day because it was such a huge store. Huge place, we had lunch or you’d go to a movie, but other than that, very seldom ever came downtown.

TS        So, I’m wondering if you actually grew up thinking of yourself more as a rural or town or…

AU      I guess too in Fairview, um, when you were from Fairview you stayed in Fairview. If you were from Spryfield, you stayed in Spryfield, and if you were from Bedford, you stayed in… So, and the only time you really got to meet other people from those areas was hockey games. And then of course there’s always a fight. They say, “Oh you’re from Spryfield,” you know so it’s like, “Oh, yeah you’re from Fairview” and then that was a big, it was always, yeah. It was crazy. There was always, you know, some sort kind of conflict of interest I guess. Everybody was territorial. And people from downtown and, everybody kind of looked like they were the same but you can tell when somebody looked, was from Spryfield, because they had the same, you know, look about them. And same with you know Fairview and you kind of knew when they say that you’re from or Bedford. They had a different way about them. So yeah, it’s like very territorial in that way. You know, so it wasn’t actually until I got to go to QE High School and uhm, that I got to meet other different nationalities.

TS        So when you would go back and forth to Eskasoni, what was your/// you say.

AU      Oh we were so young; they were my siblings over there. They were my brothers or sisters. We just like, blended right in, or I did anyway. I just felt like, “wow,” you know this is…I loved it there, I couldn’t wait to go and, but you know and then well as they got older, except for my older brother Michael, three others of my siblings all went to university. So, they came to Halifax. They stayed with us in Main Avenue, they were my older brothers and sisters.

TS        Who, who is this?

AU      Ida and…

TS        These are your own siblings?

AU      My mother’s, her first, from her first marriage.

TS        Okay.

AU      It was Ida and Gloria.

AD      Yes.

AU      And then there was Michael.

AD      Yeah, Michael, yeah.

AU      And Demetrius, I always called him Demetrius.

TS        So what year would that have been in that?

KP       Joe, we called him Joe.

AU      70’s.

TS        70’s, so you had three of your first children?

AU      Four, she had four.

TS        Four come, come to?

AU      Oh yes, sorry.  Out of the four, three.

TS        Came to, and did they get degrees?

AU      Yeah, yeah one’s a social worker, one’s a teacher and Joe is an electrician?

KP       Electrician yeah. Greg is a teacher.

AD      Who’s an electrician?

KP       Demetrius, but we called him Joe.

AU      Joe.

AD      Oh yeah.

AD      Electrician was a…who was the electrician?

AU      Joe.

AD      No, from here. My sons.

AU      Oh electrical technician, that was wrong, yeah. Oh and, and, and…

AD      Civil engineer.

AU      And Fred was a civil engineer. Yes Fred, my oldest brother who died at 33. He was the first of my siblings on either side of the family to go to university.  

KP       Ah.

AU      Well I shouldn’t say that, no because Gloria and I went to university. But on my father’s side…

KP       They went in the 80’s, I think.

AU      Yeah, I think they went early 80’s.

KP       Early 80’s.

AU      Late 70’s.

TS        And did they stay in the city in Halifax?

AU      No, they all…

KP       No, they’re in Eskasoni.

AU      They all moved back to Eskasoni.

TS        They all moved back to Eskasoni?

AU      No, Ida is an elementary teacher. She teaches Mi’kmaw.

AD      Oh I know Ida, what was her last name?

AU      Denny.

KP       Denny.

AD      Yeah, I know her.

KP       That’s her married name.

AU      Yeah.

TS        So that’s your daughter?

AU      Yeah.

TS        Oh [chuckles].

AU      And Gloria is a social worker.

TS        Uh huh.

AU      Yeah, she works off reserve. She gets appreciated more. When you work on reserve, you don’t get appreciated as much.

KP       No.

AU      You don’t. Even Joe used to say that you know, you just got to be like everybody else. If you’re, if you were a renowned artist or something, you just got to be, got to blend in with everybody else.

TS        I think that’s the crab bucket syndrome they talk about, is that correct?

AU      The what bucket?

TS        Crab bucket.

AU      Crab bucket?

TS        Where one starts getting to the top, the others start dragging you back down.

AU      Yeah, well, the whole idea was I don’t know what their concept… I don‘t think it’s jealousy but yeah you, everybody was, would be, yeah on the same level you know. They didn’t want to feel like you were any special, more special.

KP       It would have been hard for a lot of Natives to try to get jobs off reserve…

AU      Yeah.

KP       That was the main problem between…

TS        Where? When was that, Kenny?

KP       Well when my father was growing up.

AU      Oh yeah.

TS        It was hard?

AU      Few people got jobs off reserve.

KP       You could get a job but not a good one.

AU      Yeah.

TS        That’s why I was asking Annie about her jobs, I was, I didn’t want to feed the…

KP       My father was trying to get a good job in Toronto but all they offered him was minimum wage.

AU      Yeah, you told me, yeah, well my mom, her education…

KP       Otherwise he would have stayed.

AU      She went to school and she only went up to grade 3 and… was it just grade three or grade six?

AD      Who?

AU      You, when you went to school.

AD      Well I had a grade six but I threw it away

AU      You threw it away [laughter] and started working. But when she came to the city, that’s when you um…

AU      So I went to, twice uh, what they call that?

KP       Upgrading?

AD      Upgrading.

AU      Yes. She went to the library for years, she went for quite some time like, you would go for so long and then another program would come up.  Just to improve her, you know her English and Math and that type of thing. So yeah, so she always was in that learning mode. She always liked to learn new things. So, the library was very important to her, and she would have been in her 60’s then and I think when she was in, I think early 80’s that when she fell. Remember you were coming home from the library, and you fell and missed the curve you broke your wrist?

AD      Yes, yes.

AU      Were you in your 80’s? I think she was…

AD      No, no, more less.

AU      Okay she would have been in her 70’s then.

AD      I broke [laugh] I broke my hip here too.

AU      Oh you broke your hip…

AD      And I broke my…

AU      Your arm.

AD      What is it?  My arm.

AU      Yeah but that was the first time you fell because you were, you missed the cub, you were coming home from the library, and you would have been maybe 77 or 70-something.

AD      I was in an ambulance.

AU      And she was in the ambulance. They called me at work, and I rushed over there.

AD      All covered with blood.

AU      She had a bandage on her head like she was in the war, looking at me like, “Oh, you didn’t have to come down.”

TS        [Chuckles] That hurts. Where are your siblings now? Are they here?

AU      Uh, I have a sister that lives in the North End, and I have a brother that lives in LaHave. He plays a big part in the Native community down there and he’s, yeah, he’s had his own business for a while and then he married a German girl.  And uh, they had a fabulous Native wedding and now they run a school in Lunenburg. Yeah.

KP       What kind of school?

AU      It’s a language school.

KP       Oh.

AU      And it is called…

KP       German language?

KP       Oh okay.

AU      No. they teach English to foreign students.

TS        ESL.

AU      Yeah, ‘One Voice,’ I think, or ‘New Voice’, ‘New Voice’. And they teach uhm, it’s a very small, tiny little school but they’re getting a little bit busier because now with all the immigrants and stuff coming in. So, um, so yeah so that’s, and I have two brothers that passed away, so it’s…

KP       That’s their pictures on the wall there?

AU      Yeah, with their families, yeah.  

KP       Oh yeah.

AU      There’s Fred over there.

AD      That’s my grandson, yeah that’s my son, my grandson and my great grand-

AU      Great grand daughter there. That was my older brother Fred, he was a civil engineer.

AD      He’s supposed to be a doctor, you know.

AU      Well electrical engineer.

AD      But I don’t know what he does.

AU      I think he works for social.

AD      Oh he works for government.

AU      He works for the school board, and then my other brother Rob and his bunch over here. And then Almond is the youngest brother, he’s the one that lives in uhm…

AU      In Mahone Bay, this one here. Yeah, this one right here.

KP       Oh this one.

AU      Yup.

KP       Oh.

AU      Actually there are wedding pictures in the bedroom.